Working backwards today. Some of this may be a bit out of order, but I wanted to touch upon what interested me.
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@peradon If you think I am voting birdy because of an rvs question you clearly didnt bother to read the post try harder pls.
Roo: Perhaps if you didn't obfuscate matters you wouldn't be having this issue. : P
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birdy51: You're not going to get an answer for a random question out of roo. It won't happen. Want to understand him? Read Vengeful 10.
Jack A T: I shall do the reading and eventually come up with a word on my own then. Danke.
Do 12ers play to a couple of competing wagons each day?
spruce: That would be nice, but what tends to happen is we end up with one main wagon and we end up with a bunch of scattered votes on other players from people who dislike the main wagon, all yelling their own things and none really trying to convince others. Not enough effort to convince people of cases, not enough commentary on (or attention to) cases other than one's own aside from searching for scumtells. I've griped about this before, and would love more acceptance of critical acceptance of cases.
Yeah, Teneb, you big meanie. Answer the guy with the terrifying avatar.
Key word being critical. Less leaning on me, more fleshed-out thoughts about Teneb's actions and/or my attacks.
Also, this whole bit interests me. I was eating soup and an idea occurred to me. Would you be willing to continuously critically examine my works and I yours? Not as a gentleman's agreement, as in we don't vote for each other, but as a way of keeping each other's shit straight on a more constant scale and following each of our own respective leads.
Would you be interested?
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Extend, please join me, while extensions generally go needlessly unused, there are plenty of people who aren't voting (loking at you, flabort and TDS) not seriously voting (birdy) and its 3.5 hours away from day end, so this one would be good. I also just created a tie, although I'll be around to break it if necessary.
Unvote Cheesecake. We don't even know if we are facing the Cult scumteam, and the sudden votes on cheese near day end are making me suspicious. Cheese is a good vig target anyway, and we would get more information out of lynching someone else, as Cheese hasn't had a lot of interaction with other players aside from being attacked.
Still, assuming that I'm right about the rot part, that's two-thirds chance that Cheesecake is scum. Thoughts on this theory?
Actually no. There's either a 100% chance he's scum or a 100% chance he's town (and a 100% chance he's third party). Cheesecake's role has already been given to him, so probability doesn't work that way.
Also, about the rot part, if Cheese had gotten a role PM saying he was part of a cult, it would have said he was a Vampire, not a Cultist.
I'm most suspicious of Teneb right now.
Let's look at his attack on spruce. I believe this attack may be more an effort to look active and scumhunty than an effort to hunt scum. It's slapped together oddly, with unsupported assertions mixed with supportable ones. Teneb accuses spruce of constantly using nonsense to dodge questions and giving no content, but even in the set of spruce's posts that Teneb included in evidence, there's some content and the blocks of spruce-speak include answers (best example: this one).
Teneb plays up his massive block of quotes as being almost all of spruce's posts to that point. There were 8 posts in that spoiler, and spruce had 17 posts at that point. So, Teneb took less than half of spruce's posts, called them almost all of his posts, and attacked him for a lack of content. Let's look at some of what Teneb omitted, then. Maybe Teneb just omitted the assorted questions about how the setup works, how the forum works, and such...
spruce: What's wrong with birdy and roo? If you be deded now, why should TheDarkStar get your stuff?
DarkStar is the Dude, man. He's been more helpful than the rest of you combined. He deserves extra stuff.
"What's wrong with birdy and roo?"
That's what I want to know. birdy's like, let me sound Towny by asking a mundane icebreaker of everyone, and we all follow along, "Way to go, birdman!".
Regular players made roo sound like the debil. Well I don't want the debil to get my stuff. I want my stuff to go to one who will use if for good, only not in a Soylent Green sort of way.
spruce: This is interesting. Can't say any RVS questions make askers look more townish, in my opinion, but it's interesting that you bring this up. Should town be "follow[ing] along"? What impact did that icebreaker have on your view of birdy?
Well, it certainly got discussion started, and I suppose any discussion is better than none. It's we players who made it the biggest thing we've talked about so far, with Cheesecake coming in second. But we, not birdy, seemed to make a big thing of it, maybe giving birdy too much cred for asking the question, and has he even answered it himself yet? It's like he got a free pass.
Now, was spruce doing all that much scumhunting? Not clearly, not by our standards, though he did have interest in and get information from birdy. Did he, though, give no content and just run around dodging questions with nonsense? No.
Teneb's other post is less objectionable, being merely one of the many "Cheesecake did a scumslip" posts. However, it's interesting to see that in both posts, he went after classic soft targets: a newbie and a forum newcomer. It's also interesting to note the lack of any questions to anyone but Cheesecake and spruce. Also interesting to note the way he dropped the Cheesecake point without comment.
Teneb: Please explain. I'm particularly interested in the reasons for omitting the posts I noted. Also, why no interest in anyone but spruce and Cheesecake, and why drop the Cheesecake point completely without comment?
Isn't this Teneb's MO, attack a relatively new player to Bay12 because they play differently? He did it to Varee in the last NSBM and he turned out to be right, and Deathsword's lynch caused town to lose. Having said that, I'll probably join you on the Teneb lynch if there's still a tie in a few hours. Of the two wagons, He's the one who seems more scummy.
Persus13: Your argument has some distinct holes in it. I will begin the dissection.
First, you make sure to mention my name as a player that isn't doing his part when my first vote was to apply pressure upon Spruce to get answers out of him, and my second vote was against EPenguin to get him back into the game. The EPenguin who hasn't said anything beyond two posts, a fact you blissfully ignored. If there is anyone who we are to be waiting on, it would be him. For someone who stated that he valued Communication, he still hasn't done any communication. Surely those grounds are not without merit, yes?
Secondly, I'm not a fan of broad generalizations. Two votes does not a bandwagon make. Which is the number of votes Cheesecake had as of your unvote. That's not a whole helluva lot of people, so if you're going to call them out on their vote, why didn't you do so directly by name? Following immediately after that, you call for a vigilante to kill Cheesecake. Why not use the Day vote? The night is not something that any player should rely on. There are a great many things that can go wrong in the Night Phase, so why take the risk?
Finally, who are you to say what was on Cheesecake's PM? He referred to the 'Cult Conversion Game Subset', not Cult team that we know of. In addition, implied that cult games are harder due to conversions. Now I should note, that the first Cult we ever had was a standard Kill Town Mafia agenda. The second 'Cult' team, had an anomaly 1-shot convert that Mephansteras failed to communicate to the players. They were still killing players with reckless abandon. In essence, they are like a traditional Mafia team. Werewolves are also a traditional Mafia team with a Kill Town agenda. Two scum teams from separate games. Same overall goals.
Therefore, I would not be surprised in the slightest if there is a Cult Conversion game going on here.
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Further review is necessary on my end. Sometime either today or tomorrow, I'll present my reads.
Author
Topic: Supernatural 8 - Game over! Town Victory (Read 67900 times)