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Niagra Falls

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A normal college

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New York

2 (9.5%)

Tokyo

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Other? Post in thread

1 (4.8%)

I'm GM and want to see the results.

4 (19%)

Total Members Voted: 21

[mcclay]

Projecktions are fun

Is Madi still awkwardly standing there or did she sit next to Milenko?

[~Neri]

No, a perception alteration needs to be maintained consciously or set in a self feeding loop.

Mass Illusion makes something that isn't. Lasts till it runs out of energy.

[ragnarok97071]

No, a perception alteration needs to be maintained consciously or set in a self feeding loop.

Mass Illusion makes something that isn't. Lasts till it runs out of energy.

Could be a projection.

Main difference is whether it exists as a magical shell or an internal change. Mechanics difference, really.

But yeah your example of a room being full of spiders would be...

Hellishly difficult with actual Projection.

Since you'd have to make an individual shell for each spider and spiders have a lot of little details that need to be put in them already.

Though you could just make little balls with stick-legs.

...

I now have an image of a Yakko terrorizing a town with crudely drawn stick figures that run around and poke people all day.

Though the amount of magic that would be needed to actually animate something like that would still be massive, given you have to make so many finely formed objects.

But yeah think about it more like this.

Someone who can use Perception alteration can make a stick look like a sword, but if you hit someone with it, it's still a stick.

Someone who can create Projections can make a stick look like a sword and, given enough skill and power, make it cut like a sword, too.

the spider thing is actually way easier to do with Perception Alteration, since you just lay a directive that 'this room is full of spiders' and either tie it to a person, in which case that person sees the room full of spiders until you lose control of the illusion, or you tie it to the room and invest it with energy, meaning that anyone that sees it is hit with the room being full of spiders until it runs out of energy to produce the effect with.

Basically, from what you've said, your illusions work by overriding perception, right?

Does that change with Mass Illusion, or is it still just overriding perception, just on a larger scale?

[~Neri]

Both type of Kitsune eventually grow to specialize in both types. There's a reason reality warping is a seventail skill. The illusions are physically manifest.

And technically you don't need to make an individual projection for each spider. Just make a shroud of energy around the room and give it a specific format (spider) for it to form into. Give it a limit to the number of entities allowed at any time and give them a few behavior rules. The shroud'll make its own spiders.

In my headcanon, illusions are sorta like computer programs.

And yes, a Yakko could torment a village with stick figures. An Inari could also. Those would be pretty lowpower.

[Empiricist]

In my headcanon, illusions are sorta like computer programs.

Cue the logic errors

[ragnarok97071]

Both type of Kitsune eventually grow to specialize in both types. There's a reason reality warping is a seventail skill. The illusions are physically manifest.

And technically you don't need to make an individual projection for each spider. Just make a shroud of energy around the room and give it a specific format (spider) for it to form into. Give it a limit to the number of entities allowed at any time and give them a few behavior rules. The shroud'll make its own spiders.

In my headcanon, illusions are sorta like computer programs.

And yes, a Yakko could torment a village with stick figures. An Inari could also. Those would be pretty lowpower.

That's actually a really good way to make spells like that.

's called Magecraft, at least in my whole... thing. Basically forming spells as complex, adaptive programs.

As opposed to Sorcery, which is just drawing up power and forming it into shit.

In which case Kitsune as a whole are focused on Magecraft (though I'd love to see one that uses Sorcery-based Projections using Foxfire...), with a specialty in illusion magic.

Cool cool. Thanks for sharing.

[Empiricist]

Wouldn't that be really bad for dangerous spells since the debugging process may involve realizing that it demolishes your house instead of doing what it's meant to be doing?

[ragnarok97071]

Wouldn't that be really bad for dangerous spells since the debugging process may involving realizing that it demolishes your house instead of doing what it's meant to be doing?

Which is why magecraft is generally used either for spells that use a lot of simple procedures to produce a larger effect.

Sorcery is where you get your bigass fireballs, since that's just "okay, grab a bunch of hydrogen, suck it into a sphere, then light it on fire and launch it in that direction."

Magecraft only gets really useful when you have to deal with more variables than you can hold in your head at once.

[Adragis]

Munchkin fight!
...although it ain't really a fight no more.

[Projeck37]

Projecktions are fun

Is Madi still awkwardly standing there or did she sit next to Milenko?

She sat. Edited it in.

[Empiricist]

So in other words, complex powerful spells are practically impossible since Sorcery can't keep up with the variables, and Magecraft would probably misplace a pointer somewhere and memory leak itself into oblivion.

[~Neri]

Wouldn't that be really bad for dangerous spells since the debugging process may involve realizing that it demolishes your house instead of doing what it's meant to be doing?

There's a reason most normal mages stick to predefined spells rather than experiment. Kitsune and their foxfire is pretty instinctual, based in emotion, relatively chaotic. You'll normally find more complex and orderly stuff in the higher rankings of tails because at that point, they can afford to be blown up on accident. Lower numbers of tails generally just go with instinctual stuff. Occasionally branching out into things they find they specialize in. Such as Kiri and Perception Based Illusion. It's relatively hard for a onetail Inari to selectively censor conversations. Kiri has a lotta practice.

Both type of Kitsune eventually grow to specialize in both types. There's a reason reality warping is a seventail skill. The illusions are physically manifest.

And technically you don't need to make an individual projection for each spider. Just make a shroud of energy around the room and give it a specific format (spider) for it to form into. Give it a limit to the number of entities allowed at any time and give them a few behavior rules. The shroud'll make its own spiders.

In my headcanon, illusions are sorta like computer programs.

And yes, a Yakko could torment a village with stick figures. An Inari could also. Those would be pretty lowpower.

That's actually a really good way to make spells like that.

's called Magecraft, at least in my whole... thing. Basically forming spells as complex, adaptive programs.

As opposed to Sorcery, which is just drawing up power and forming it into shit.

In which case Kitsune as a whole are focused on Magecraft (though I'd love to see one that uses Sorcery-based Projections using Foxfire...), with a specialty in illusion magic.

Cool cool. Thanks for sharing.

Foxfire is for Kitsune basically what mana does for sorcerers. It's fuel and energy on its own. They can form it into shit if their instincts let them, or they can do shit through trial and error. The more tails, the more instincts and the more detail they can perceive. Therefore the more tails they have, the more complex the shit they make gets. Kitsune don't use orderly magic~ A wizard!kitsune is very very unlikely to show up. Technically a Kitsune could learn an orderly spell, but it's harder to form and use due to the tendency of foxfire to overload the normal energy regulators. Kitsune don't even get conscious forming of foxrunes till Inari Tail4 and Yakko Tail7.

Wouldn't that be really bad for dangerous spells since the debugging process may involving realizing that it demolishes your house instead of doing what it's meant to be doing?

Which is why magecraft is generally used either for spells that use a lot of simple procedures to produce a larger effect.

Sorcery is where you get your bigass fireballs, since that's just "okay, grab a bunch of hydrogen, suck it into a sphere, then light it on fire and launch it in that direction."

Magecraft only gets really useful when you have to deal with more variables than you can hold in your head at once.

Complex shit is magecraft (or orderly), instinctual/freeform is sorcery (or chaotic). Basically. Kitsune normally do instinctual (or chaotic as is the term normally used). Orderly stuff is rare till the higher tails.

[Adragis]

But we cannot forget that Kitsune are deadly afraid of dogs.
I mean, seriously, if you're gonna be a character from folklore you need to have all the ridiculous weaknesses too.

[ragnarok97071]

So in other words, complex powerful spells are practically impossible since Sorcery can't keep up with the variables, and Magecraft would probably misplace a pointer somewhere and memory leak itself into oblivion.

no, they can. They just take a LONG time to develop since generally the only safe way to do so is to test each independent subroutine for compliance before attempting the final spell.

Or have an ability like Eve's that lets you detect the composition and any flaws within a spell as you cast it, which at least for ones own spells is something that dedicated mages generally figure out pretty fast, though the act of putting together spells still takes time, even with something like that.

But yes.

Powerful and complex spells are very rare outside of rediculously powerful spellcasters.

also, Re:Kevak Oh. So they're actually sorcerers, just that generally they don't bother learning more than what comes natural because what comes natural is pretty damn good.

...

...

My god I know what your end-of-semester project is going to be >:3

[mcclay]

Speaking of Rag torturing us all with ~~MAGIC~~ Finals, how do I go about getting Milenko enrolled in some classes?