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Author Topic: GemSet v1.41 [42.04]  (Read 345836 times)

DragonDePlatino

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2015, 04:21:40 pm »

Dragon,

The wiki has a list of each tile and its uses in-game. http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Tilesets#What_tiles_are_used_for_what

Not sure it's 100% up-to-date, but it's what I use when assigning graphics to new items, workshops, etc.

Yup! I've been using that page and it's indispensable for inexperienced players like me.

Also, you seem to be our resident plant expert? Could please you help me out with understanding what PLANT and PLANT_GROWTH are? I've been able to texture everything else rather smoothly, but I'm still a little confused on these. Specifically, I'm unsure on the distinctions between plant items, plant tiles and plant buildings. I'm going to be making TWBT tiles for the following plants with the assumption they are all items:

Code: [Select]
ID:TYPE
(ORIGINAL TILE)
SUBTYPE

PLANT:PLANT
(3) DIMPLE CUPS
(5) QUARRY BUSHES,
(6) PLUMP HELMETS
(37) MISC. BERRIES
(58) STRAWBERRY, PRICKLE BERRY, FISHER BERRY, SUN BERRY, MISC. BERRIES
(111) WINTER MELON, WATERMELON
(152) VALLEY HERB
(159) ROPE REED
(231) PIG TAIL, CAVE WHEAT, LONGLAND GRASS, RAT WEED, HIDE ROOT, MUCK ROOT, BLADE WEED, SLIVER BARB
(232) SWEET POD, BLOATED TUBER, KOBOLD BULB
(250) PLANTS AT LOWER ELEVATION
PLANT_GROWTH:PLANT_GROWTH
(5) FLOWERS, SPATHES
(6) LEAVES, FEATHERS
(7) FRUIT, NUTS
(37) SEEDS, FRUIT, EGGS
(42) LEAVES, NUTS, SEEDS, POLLEN CATKINS, SEED CATKINS, SEED CONES, POLLEN CONES, BURRS,
0 LEAVES
1 FLOWERS
2 POD
3 HEART
4 FRUIT
5 BUDS
6 NUT
7 POLLEN_CATKINS
8 SEED_CATKINS
9 SEED
10 SEED_CONE
11 POLLEN_CONE
12 FEATHERS
13 EGGS
14 SPATHES

I'm not sure about the growth subtypes, though. Are there 15? Are they in the correct order? I found all of these scattered throughout the plant raws and marked them down in the order I found them.

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2015, 05:51:07 pm »

I think the growths are just like if you eat a plump helmet it leaves seeds, if you pick stuff off a tree and drop it then you get the relevant item, etc.

These are leaves I pulled off of some trees and dropped, top right is grape, middle right is I think a melon, bottom right is plum, bottom left is peach, middle left is pear I think:
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 05:55:58 pm by Max™ »
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Button

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2015, 05:59:35 pm »

Also, you seem to be our resident plant expert? Could please you help me out with understanding what PLANT and PLANT_GROWTH are? I've been able to texture everything else rather smoothly, but I'm still a little confused on these.

PLANTs are things like shrubs, grasses, and trees. They represent a full organism. When you pick rope reeds, you uproot the whole plant and carry it away. Contrast a blueberry bush, where you pick the fruits, and the bush continues to grow. PLANT_GROWTHs represent the things that can be picked from a plant without killing it - things like leaves, flowers or berries.

What you need to know for making graphics is that a blueberry bush will most of the time look like a plain shrub, but when there are blueberry growths present, it turns into a picture of a blueberry, or a picture of a shrub with little blue balls on it, or whatever. When the growth is picked or expires due to time, the shrub reverts to its usual appearance, and the picked growth changes into an item, often with a different tile.

All the growth appearance info is included in the GROWTH_PRINT tag. The first parameter is the tile defining what the growth looks like when it's still on the plant. The second parameter is the tile defining what the growth looks like when it's been picked and has become an item. If overrides are possible for plants, it's this item tile that you'll want to override. The next 3 parameters are a color, formatted in the usual way. Off the top of my head I can't remember if this color is used for both growing and picked varieties - the picked tile may use the DISPLAY_COLOR of the material it's made of.

Then there's 1-2 parameters saying what time of year this growth will be displayed for. The growth appears on the plant at the beginning of the range, and if it hasn't been picked yet, disappears at the end. "Display" is the key word, here - the growth can be logically present on the plant without showing its tile. For example, in vanilla DF, pine cones are present on the tree from 100000:300000 (roughly the whole of summer and autumn), but are never actually displayed on the tree.

The last GROWTH_PRINT parameter is the priority. If there are multiple growths available to display on a tile at the same time, the one with the highest priority is the one that's actually shown to the player. So for example, banana leaves have a priority of 1, and bananas the fruits have a priority of 3. When bananas and leaves are present on the same tile, the banana tile is displayed, because the banana growth has a higher priority. If the bananas are picked, the growth with the next highest priority - leaves, in this case - will resume being displayed. If there were no other growths present, then when the bananas were picked, the trunk underneath would be displayed instead.

Quote
Specifically, I'm unsure on the distinctions between plant items, plant tiles and plant buildings.

A plant tile is used when the plant is growing, or dead in the ground. Once it is picked, it becomes a plant item. Overrides will not work for plant tiles, but may work for plant items.

Are plant buildings like elven tree homes? If so they use plant tiles.

Quote
I'm going to be making TWBT tiles for the following plants with the assumption they are all items:

Code: [Select]
ID:TYPE
(ORIGINAL TILE)
SUBTYPE

PLANT:PLANT
(3) DIMPLE CUPS
(5) QUARRY BUSHES,
(6) PLUMP HELMETS
(37) MISC. BERRIES
(58) STRAWBERRY, PRICKLE BERRY, FISHER BERRY, SUN BERRY, MISC. BERRIES
(111) WINTER MELON, WATERMELON
(152) VALLEY HERB
(159) ROPE REED
(231) PIG TAIL, CAVE WHEAT, LONGLAND GRASS, RAT WEED, HIDE ROOT, MUCK ROOT, BLADE WEED, SLIVER BARB
(232) SWEET POD, BLOATED TUBER, KOBOLD BULB
(250) PLANTS AT LOWER ELEVATION
PLANT_GROWTH:PLANT_GROWTH
(5) FLOWERS, SPATHES
(6) LEAVES, FEATHERS
(7) FRUIT, NUTS
(37) SEEDS, FRUIT, EGGS
(42) LEAVES, NUTS, SEEDS, POLLEN CATKINS, SEED CATKINS, SEED CONES, POLLEN CONES, BURRS,
0 LEAVES
1 FLOWERS
2 POD
3 HEART
4 FRUIT
5 BUDS
6 NUT
7 POLLEN_CATKINS
8 SEED_CATKINS
9 SEED
10 SEED_CONE
11 POLLEN_CONE
12 FEATHERS
13 EGGS
14 SPATHES

I'm not sure about the growth subtypes, though. Are there 15? Are they in the correct order? I found all of these scattered throughout the plant raws and marked them down in the order I found them.

The growths that share the same names aren't all the same - the FRUIT growths, for example, may be blueberries, apples, bananas, pineapples, or any number of other fruits. I don't really know how overrides work, but if picked growths can even be overridden, then if you wanted an exhaustive set of graphics, you'd need a different override for almost every different kind of fruit. (You could probably use the same override for like, oranges and mangos.)

Some of the growths are never picked in fortress mode, and only picked in adventure mode for shits & giggles. For example, I don't think any kinds of flowers are picked in fortress mode in vanilla DF, so creating item overrides for them would probably be overkill. Unless you want to provide it just in case someone decides to go picking flowers in adventure mode.

For a rule of thumb, check each growth's material. If it contains [STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH], that growth will be picked. If it doesn't, it won't. Full shrubs are a little trickier - check the STRUCTURAL material of the shrub, and if it has any [MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT]s or is [EDIBLE_RAW] or [EDIBLE_COOKED], that's a shrub that is pickable whole.

Some shrubs are pickable whole and have growths that will be picked, most notably lettuce, quarry bushes, and cabbage. The picked leaves and the picked whole shrubs are different items, and will need to have their graphics defined independently of each other.

One more thing you might want to check out is seeds. Not the growths labeled as seeds, which by the way can't be picked in vanilla DF. The tags to define seeds include an item tile and color, so they might also be override-able.
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DragonDePlatino

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #78 on: May 20, 2015, 06:51:44 pm »

Thank you very much for the clarification! I walked myself through the raws while reading your explanation and almost everything's crystal-clear. I'll try using [PICKED_TILE] for the PLANT overrides and the parameters of [GROWTH_PRINT] for the PLANT_GROWTH overrides. I'll also keep in mind the priorities and whether the growth is even pickable.

Two things, though...First, I noticed that for lettuce leaves, the first GROWTH_PRINT parameter is 0. Does that mean the growth isn't displayed at all while it's on the plant, even if all the higher-priority growths have been removed? Secondly, what is the maximum number of growths that a vanilla plant can have? TWBT overrides take the following parameters...

[OVERRIDE:OldTile:I:ID:Type:Subtype:Tileset:TilesetID]

...With the subtype being the growths (in order) of a specific plant. So if I wanted to override all of the picked ♠ tiles for all plants, I would try...

[OVERRIDE:6:I:PLANT_GROWTH:PLANT_GROWTH:0:items:LeafTile]
[OVERRIDE:6:I:PLANT_GROWTH:PLANT_GROWTH:1:items:LeafTile]
[OVERRIDE:6:I:PLANT_GROWTH:PLANT_GROWTH:2:items:LeafTile]
etc etc etc

As you can see, I can't specify a specific plant so I'll just have to go through all possible combinations of OldTile and Subtype. I'll need to know the most growths a vanilla plant has to do this.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 06:56:18 pm by DragonDePlatino »
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Meph

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2015, 01:50:21 am »

Just to be clear: You want to make custom sprites for all plants and plant parts? If so, that would be a first and this set be the most extensive that DF has ever seen. And if it exists, it would make it easier for people to copy the override files and create their own graphics for plants, to fit other styles. Please go for it. :)
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DragonDePlatino

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #80 on: May 21, 2015, 02:48:55 am »

Well...yes and no. I'm going to try my best and sprite everything I can, but I think I'll only be able to specify the tile of a PLANT or PLANT_GROWTH. I won't be able to give a tile for, say, the leaves of a lettuce plant. I'll only be able to go through all of the growths and give a single texture to anything with represented by a ♠ (usually leaves).

That is, unless I edited the plant raws and gave a unique tile for every growth of every plant. But that'd conflict with mods, so I'll be staying away from that.

BUT that doesn't mean this won't be a very extensive set. I've been slowly chipping away at the overrides alphabetically and I've successfully achieved the following graphics in-game. All of them have unique tiles.

Code: [Select]
ID:TYPE
(ORIGINAL TILE)
SUBTYPE

AMMO:AMMO
(47)
0 ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS
1 ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS
2 ITEM_AMMO_BLOWDARTS
AMULET:AMULET
(12)
ANIMALTRAP:ANIMALTRAP
(127)
ANVIL:ANVIL
(229)
ARMOR:ARMOR
(91)
0 ITEM_ARMOR_BREASTPLATE
1 ITEM_ARMOR_MAIL_SHIRT
2 ITEM_ARMOR_LEATHER
3 ITEM_ARMOR_COAT
4 ITEM_ARMOR_SHIRT
5 ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK
6 ITEM_ARMOR_TUNIC
7 ITEM_ARMOR_TOGA
8 ITEM_ARMOR_CAPE
9 ITEM_ARMOR_VEST
10 ITEM_ARMOR_DRESS
11 ITEM_ARMOR_ROBE
ARMORSTAND:ARMORSTAND
(14)
BACKPACK:BACKPACK
(146)
BALLISTAARROWHEAD:BALLISTAARROWHEAD
(17)
BALLISTAPARTS:BALLISTAPARTS
(220)
BAR:BAR
(240)
BARREL:BARREL
(246)
BED:BED
(233)
BIN:BIN
(88)
BLOCKS:BLOCKS
(254)
BOOK:BOOK
(8)
BOULDER:BOULDER
(7)
BOX:BOX
(11) LEATHER
(146) STONE/WOOD/METAL/GLASS
BRACELET:BRACELET
(153)
BUCKET:BUCKET
(150)
CABINET:CABINET
(227)
CAGE:CAGE
(19)
CATAPULTPARTS:CATAPULTPARTS
(220)
CHAIN:CHAIN
(179)
CHAIR:CHAIR
(210)
CHEESE:CHEESE
(37)
CLOTH:CLOTH
(167)
COFFIN:COFFIN
(48)
COIN:COIN
(36)
CORPSEPIECE:CORPSEPIECE
(253)
CROWN:CROWN
(230)
CRUTCH:CRUTCH
(194)
DOOR:DOOR
(15) GEM
(79) GLASS
(186) WOOD/BONE
(197) STONE
(240) METAL
EARRING:EARRING
(235)
EGG:EGG
(248)
FIGURINE:FIGURINE
(143)
FISH:FISH
(224)
FISH_RAW:FISH_RAW
(224)
FLASK:FLASK
(173)
FLOODGATE:FLOODGATE
(42) GEM
(88) STONE/METAL
(215) WOODEN/BONE
FOOD:FOOD
(37)
0 ITEM_FOOD_BISCUITS
1 ITEM_FOOD_STEW
2 ITEM_FOOD_ROAST
GEM:GEM
(4)
GLOB:GLOB
(247)
GLOVES:GLOVES
(91)
0 ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLETS
1 ITEM_GLOVES_GLOVES
2 ITEM_GLOVES_MITTENS
GOBLET:GOBLET
(20)
GRATE:GRATE
(35)
HATCH_COVER:HATCH_COVER
(155)
HELM:HELM
(91)
0 ITEM_HELM_HELM
1 ITEM_HELM_CAP
2 ITEM_HELM_HOOD
3 ITEM_HELM_TURBAN
4 ITEM_HELM_MASK
5 ITEM_HELM_VEIL_HEAD
6 ITEM_HELM_VEIL_FACE
7 ITEM_HELM_SCARF_HEAD
INSTRUMENT:INSTRUMENT
(168)
0 ITEM_INSTRUMENT_FLUTE
1 ITEM_INSTRUMENT_TRUMPET
2 ITEM_INSTRUMENT_HARP
3 ITEM_INSTRUMENT_DRUM
4 ITEM_INSTRUMENT_PICCOLO
LIQUID_MISC:LIQUID_MISC
(247)
MEAT:MEAT
(224)
MILLSTONE:MILLSTONE
(9)
PANTS:PANTS
(91)
0 ITEM_PANTS_PANTS
1 ITEM_PANTS_GREAVES
2 ITEM_PANTS_LEGGINGS
3 ITEM_PANTS_LOINCLOTH
4 ITEM_PANTS_THONG

Hopefully I'm not missing any of the alternate tiles for these items. So far, that's 89 item graphics. Only 157 more to go! :D
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 02:54:39 am by DragonDePlatino »
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Meph

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #81 on: May 21, 2015, 03:11:43 am »

Possible alternate tiles you might have missed:

Flying arrows. There are 4 of them. I'm not sure if Twbt can override those, but if yes, than you need I, -, / and \.

Ashes/Spend ammo. They share the same tiles, 242 and 243, which drives me mad. If you can override one (or both of them), that would be amazing. Especially since the broken ammo sprite would fit the ammo sprite you made.
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Putnam

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #82 on: May 21, 2015, 04:10:39 am »

Pretty sure vertically-flying arrows are |, not I.

Meph

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #83 on: May 21, 2015, 04:59:00 am »

Yes.
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Button

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #84 on: May 21, 2015, 09:45:22 am »

Two things, though...First, I noticed that for lettuce leaves, the first GROWTH_PRINT parameter is 0. Does that mean the growth isn't displayed at all while it's on the plant, even if all the higher-priority growths have been removed?

I believe that's correct. I've certainly always been able to see lettuce plants, and if the 0 graphic overrode it, I think it would just look like grass.

Quote
Secondly, what is the maximum number of growths that a vanilla plant can have?

I think the most growths that any single vanilla plant uses is 4 - leaf, female catkin, male catkin, fruit-or-nut. Theoretically, there's no limit.

Quote
So if I wanted to override all of the picked ♠ tiles for all plants, I would try...

[OVERRIDE:6:I:PLANT_GROWTH:PLANT_GROWTH:0:items:LeafTile]
[OVERRIDE:6:I:PLANT_GROWTH:PLANT_GROWTH:1:items:LeafTile]
[OVERRIDE:6:I:PLANT_GROWTH:PLANT_GROWTH:2:items:LeafTile]
etc etc etc

As you can see, I can't specify a specific plant so I'll just have to go through all possible combinations of OldTile and Subtype. I'll need to know the most growths a vanilla plant has to do this.

Eeg. Would it be possible to change the tiles before you override them? Presumably it wouldn't matter if the tile makes no sense, if it's just going to be overridden?
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DragonDePlatino

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #85 on: May 21, 2015, 03:57:42 pm »

Possible alternate tiles you might have missed:

Flying arrows. There are 4 of them. I'm not sure if Twbt can override those, but if yes, than you need I, -, / and \.

Ashes/Spend ammo. They share the same tiles, 242 and 243, which drives me mad. If you can override one (or both of them), that would be amazing. Especially since the broken ammo sprite would fit the ammo sprite you made.

Ahhh...No dice, man. I gave it a shot and TWBT won't let me override flying arrows or spent ammo. To do that, I would use these commands:

[OVERRIDE:124:I:AMMO:AMMO:1:items:96]   # ARROW FLYING UP/DOWN
[OVERRIDE:242:I:AMMO:AMMO:1:items:97]   # SPENT ARROW RIGHT
[OVERRIDE:243:I:AMMO:AMMO:1:items:98]   # SPENT ARROW LEFT

I screwed around in the arena for a bit and unfortunately these overrides didn't work. It doesn't matter that much, though. If I could make these overrides, they wouldn't be any more detailed than ASCII. Arrows use the same tile for flying upwards and downwards, so I'd have to create one generic line tile to work for both.

That, and TWBT let's me override Ashes1, Ashes2 and Ashes3 so I can guarentee that will work. (What are the third ash tiles, though? I only know 242 and 243)

Eeg. Would it be possible to change the tiles before you override them? Presumably it wouldn't matter if the tile makes no sense, if it's just going to be overridden?

Yeaaahhh...I know there are a lot of downsides (like the fact that ♠ might not always be a leaf, and all leaves will look the same) but it's the best I can do without editing the raws and giving every growth of every plant a unique tile. If I edit raws, it'll create incompatibility with mods and might conflict with other tilesets. I'd like to stay away from that for now.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 04:01:50 pm by DragonDePlatino »
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Meph

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #86 on: May 22, 2015, 12:29:41 am »

Saw you mention asking for feedback about flat or fake 3D/isometric tiles: I think you should go with the isometric view, because you are one of the few people here who can actually pull that off and there are plenty of flat/2D tilesets.
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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #87 on: May 22, 2015, 12:59:04 am »

If you can keep it from getting too escher-esque mindscrewing.

I like the 2.5 D view where you can see the south face of the walls and you've got the sense of volume for the others, but making all of the walls visible messes with the brain, and I like optical illusions so take that as you will.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 01:01:40 am by Max™ »
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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #88 on: May 22, 2015, 01:03:50 am »

If it's just tiles in the tileset, why not just make variation tilesets?  Everyone else seems to do it when they can't decide on wall style!  The full set of overrides etc could get a bit more tedious though...
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DragonDePlatino

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Re: (24x24 / 48x48) GemSet v1.1 [40.24]
« Reply #89 on: May 22, 2015, 01:14:20 am »

Currently, I'm debating 3 possible perspectives for the walls.



1. The bare minimum to have any perspective. The sides of walls are flat, and only the top/front are visible. These are very easy on the eyes and only need 3 colors to be drawn. They were a suggestion by Clatch.

2. A top-down perspective with slanted walls. The front, left and right sides are visible and 4 colors are needed for these. This is my personal-favorite perspective and I have used it in other projects like DawnLike.

3. The most complicated but realistic perspective possible. The view is nearly top-down and all of the sides of a wall can be seen simultaneously. 5 colors are needed to draw these and they were a suggestion by Dibujor.

And keep in mind this is the walls only. Whatever final design I choose for the walls won't influence the rest of the graphics set. For things like stone and trunks, I'm limited to a perfectly top-down perspective because there aren't enough tiles for those to give them perspective. Those will clash regardless of what I do with the walls.

The wall perspective is still really important, though. Unlike other graphics sets, I'm not going to include wall tiles in a tileset. I'm going to be doing 152 wall overrides so different kinds of walls (i.e. Stone, Mineral, Frozen) can have their own texture. It's important I get the perspective right before I start drawing those.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 06:14:35 pm by DragonDePlatino »
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