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[Meph]

Twbt also uses three tilesets: One for the game, one for the map and one for text. It doesnt matter if your tileset is purely text or graphics, because you can have both.

Engraved floors will be a little tricky, though, because they could be almost any tile.

Not really.

d_init.txt

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If you'd like your engravings to start off looking the same (you can toggle them on individual later), set this to YES.

[ENGRAVINGS_START_OBSCURED:YES] Most people have that on yes, making all engravings look the same.

[DragonDePlatino]

Ahhh...I was not aware of this setting. But...then this creates a problem. TWBT does not have separate tile types for smoothed walls and engraved walls, so you have to use the ASCII tile to differentiate them. If you wanted to override a smooth wall, you would try something like:

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[OVERRIDE:201:T:ConstructedWallLU:2:5] #Override LU corner
And if you wanted to override an engraved smooth wall, you would try:

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[OVERRIDE:1:T:ConstructedWallLU:2:6] #Override LU corner engraved with a dwarf
[OVERRIDE:4:T:ConstructedWallLU:2:6] #Override LU corner engraved with some gems
[OVERRIDE:74:T:ConstructedWallLU:2:6] #Override LU corner engraved with a jaguar
Etc etc etc until you have every possible combination of wall tile and engraving. If there are 19 possible walls and a few dozen engravings, you'd need to have hundreds of overrides to catch every case. Your solution would simplify things, but toggling engravings changes them to be the same tile as the smoothed wall (of a different color) so TWBT would have no way to differentiate them.

Ugh...It's a loose-loose situation, I guess. I'll try pulling off those hundreds of overrides and if it doesn't work, people will just have to settle with engravings having a gray background like with ASCII.

[Max™]

The modified bisasam set I was using had a neat solution for that, the black background for the walls makes the engraved walls pop when the colors are flipped.

[Meph]

From what I know, people barely every enable the different engravings, especially when playing with graphic sets. I wouldnt do the X amount of different engraving shapes, if I were you. At least make a poll first.

So Twbt can't tell the difference from smoothed and engraved? Because its the same tile, just different background color... huh. I honestly did not expect that. Are you sure? Because what you quote is CONTRUCTED wall, aka a wall someone build, with the construction menu.

Checking readme now..

Tiletypes:

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StoneFloor1, StoneFloor2, StoneFloor3, StoneFloor4, StoneFloorSmooth, StoneFloorTrackE, StoneFloorTrackEW, StoneFloorTrackN, StoneFloorTrackNE, StoneFloorTrackNEW, StoneFloorTrackNS, StoneFloorTrackNSE, StoneFloorTrackNSEW, StoneFloorTrackNSW, StoneFloorTrackNW, StoneFloorTrackS, StoneFloorTrackSE, StoneFloorTrackSEW, StoneFloorTrackSW, StoneFloorTrackW, StoneFortification, StonePebbles1, StonePebbles2, StonePebbles3, StonePebbles4, StonePillar, StoneRamp, StoneRampTrackE, StoneRampTrackEW, StoneRampTrackN, StoneRampTrackNE, StoneRampTrackNEW, StoneRampTrackNS, StoneRampTrackNSE, StoneRampTrackNSEW, StoneRampTrackNSW, StoneRampTrackNW, StoneRampTrackS, StoneRampTrackSE, StoneRampTrackSEW, StoneRampTrackSW, StoneRampTrackW, StoneStairD, StoneStairU, StoneStairUD, StoneWall, StoneWallSmoothL2D, StoneWallSmoothL2U, StoneWallSmoothLD, StoneWallSmoothLD2, StoneWallSmoothLR, StoneWallSmoothLRD, StoneWallSmoothLRU, StoneWallSmoothLRUD, StoneWallSmoothLU, StoneWallSmoothLU2, StoneWallSmoothLUD, StoneWallSmoothR2D, StoneWallSmoothR2U, StoneWallSmoothRD, StoneWallSmoothRD2, StoneWallSmoothRU, StoneWallSmoothRU2, StoneWallSmoothRUD, StoneWallSmoothUD, StoneWallWorn1, StoneWallWorn2, StoneWallWorn3, Thats smoothed walls that were once natural walls, smoothed by an engraver.

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ConstructedFloor, ConstructedFloorTrackE, ConstructedFloorTrackEW, ConstructedFloorTrackN, ConstructedFloorTrackNE, ConstructedFloorTrackNEW, ConstructedFloorTrackNS, ConstructedFloorTrackNSE, ConstructedFloorTrackNSEW, ConstructedFloorTrackNSW, ConstructedFloorTrackNW, ConstructedFloorTrackS, ConstructedFloorTrackSE, ConstructedFloorTrackSEW, ConstructedFloorTrackSW, ConstructedFloorTrackW, ConstructedFortification, ConstructedPillar, ConstructedRamp, ConstructedRampTrackE, ConstructedRampTrackEW, ConstructedRampTrackN, ConstructedRampTrackNE, ConstructedRampTrackNEW, ConstructedRampTrackNS, ConstructedRampTrackNSE, ConstructedRampTrackNSEW ConstructedRampTrackNSW, ConstructedRampTrackNW, ConstructedRampTrackS, ConstructedRampTrackSE, ConstructedRampTrackSEW, ConstructedRampTrackSW, ConstructedRampTrackW, ConstructedStairD, ConstructedStairU, ConstructedStairUD, ConstructedWallL2D, ConstructedWallL2U, ConstructedWallLD, ConstructedWallLD2, ConstructedWallLR, ConstructedWallLRD, ConstructedWallLRU, ConstructedWallLRUD, ConstructedWallLU, ConstructedWallLU2, ConstructedWallLUD, ConstructedWallR2D, ConstructedWallR2U, ConstructedWallRD, ConstructedWallRD2, ConstructedWallRU, ConstructedWallRU2, ConstructedWallRUD, ConstructedWallUD, There are the constructed onces, aka build a new wall mostly used aboveground.

And... crap. There really is nothing about engravings.

You are right, it's either overrides for different materials, but no difference in smoothed/engraved, or using tilesets for a difference in smoothed/engraved, but no changes in materials.

My suggestion would be to use overrides for the walls, because having unique walls for each material type is completely new and no one has done that before, while using the tileset to make the floors. And let Mifki know, in case he isnt aware already.

[Max™]

The only time I toggle enravings on is in sections to add a bit of symmetry in a large engraved room, and yeah, varying the walls by material sounds cool as 12 kinds of frozen hell.

[DragonDePlatino]

Well, I guess that more or less solves the engraving issue for now. But you know what is turning out to be another major pain? ...Ground tiles.

To reiterate, for some things in TWBT you can only override them based on their ascii tile. This is the case for StoneWall and MineralWall, which give the graphics to all stone layers and veins in the game.

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SOIL LAYER TILES (SoilWall)
Tile Material

176 Loam, Peat, Pelagic clay, Red sand, Sand (tan), Sandy clay loam, Sandy loam, Silty clay loam
177 Calcareous ooze, Clay loam, Loamy sand, Sandy clay, Siliceous ooze, Silt loam
178 Black sand, Clay, Fire clay, Silt, Silty clay, White sand, Yellow sand,

STONE LAYER TILES (StoneWall)
Tile Material

35 Basalt, Rock Salt, Sandstone
37 Siltstone, Slate
44 Claystone, Rhyolite
45 Phyllite, Quartzite
46 Dacite, Shale
61 Chert, Gneiss
96 Dolomite, Schist
176 Chalk, Diorite
177 Gabbro, Obsidian
178 Granite, Limestone, Marble
236 Andesite, Conglomerate
247 Mudstone

VEIN TILES (MineralWall)
Tile Material

15 Bituminous Coal
34 Calcite, Hornblende
35 Gypsum, Sandstone
37 Brimstone, Kimberlite, Marcasite, Microcline, Olivine, Orthoclase, Petrified wood, Pyrolusite, Realgar, Stibnite
42 Lignite, Pitchblende
43 Bauxite
44 Periclase
45 Cryolite, Orpiment, Satinspar
46 Ilmenite
59 Selenite
61 Chromite, Kaolinite, Sylvite
94 Alabaster
96 Alunite, Borax, Rutile
111 Graphite
118 Anhydrite, Mica
120 Saltpeter
124 Talc
156 Cinnabar, Cobalt
176 Jet
233 Puddingstone
247 Serpentine

ORE/GEM TILES (MineralWall)
Tile Material

15 All gems
37 Bismuthinite
94 Native aluminum
126 Magnetite
156 Adamantine, Cassiterite, Galena, Garnierite, Hematite, Horn silver, Limonite, Malachite, Native copper, Native gold, Native platinum, Native silver, Sphalerite, Tetrahedrite
The problem here is that there's little rhyme or reason as to which materials get which tile. I could try making graphics based on a material's real-world appearance, but then you've have materials like kaolinite and sylvite sharing a tile. I could break up the materials into their layers/worth like Phoebus does, but materials like chalk and diorite use the same ascii tile. I could try creating separate tiles for stones and veins, but many tiles are shared between the two.

So...At this point it looks like I'm gonna have to give in and edit the raws. Which would conflict with any mods that add stones, veins, ores, gems or soil (i.e. almost all of them) and create incompatibilities with existing saves. I could create installation scripts with programs like BAMM! and PyDwarf to automatically edit the raws, but that would complicate installation and add more 3rd party dependencies to just get the graphics set working. Not to mention, I have no idea how to use either program.

So would anyone have a solution? A way to create unique graphics for all ground tiles while maintaining mod and save compatibility?

[jason0320]

Can you override the subtype of the tile?
You should ask Meph since he has experience dealing with items with subtypes.

[DragonDePlatino]

I'm afraid not...Overrides for tiles are something like:

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[OVERRIDE:(ASCII tile):T:(SoilWall, StoneWall or MineralWall):(Sprite Sheet):(Tile from sprite sheet)]
So there's no room to specify a subtype. You can specify one of three types and the ascii tile and that's it. To be honest, I'd really like to send a request for tile subtypes to mifki but he's currently busy working on the new material colors and building animations.

[jason0320]

Or just let it be vanilla color-based tiles?
You did great job, don't push too hard on yerself

[Meph]

Cant you just ignore natural walls and inorganics? Make tiles for constructed and smoothed, that should be enough.

Or I might be missing the point entirely.

[DragonDePlatino]

Yeah...you're right. I still want people to still be able to identify all of the different inorganics, so I think I'll be ignoring soil, walls and minerals until TWBT gets subtype support for those. Mod/save compatibility is a much higher priority than unique graphics for these things.

[Meph]

You might also start confusing people. Most guys have these things memorized, "oh, ore symbol + red = iron", "ore symbol + white = silver/galena", etc. If you start making a unique sprite for each inorganic, people will have a hard time figuring out whats what.

Nothing against your art skills, but making a bed look like a bed and a crate like a crate is easy in comparison to making cinnabar look like cinnabar and pitchblende look like pitchblende. Or in other words: People know what beds look like, so they recognize the bed icon, but people have no clue what pitchblende looks like, so they just memorized the DF version using tile+color. If you show them actual pitchblende, they wont know it far what it is.

Or I could be wrong and unique sprites for all inorganics will look amazing and make it easier to distinguish them. Hasnt been done before, I'm just theorizing.

[DragonDePlatino]

Yeah, the inorganics were really holding me up but now that everything's planned out I've finally started on the tile overrides. These will go more quickly than the tile overrides because they're easy to draw and the planning was the most time-consuming part.

But if TWBT ever gets tile subtype support, I'll try separating all of the inorganics into categories based on utility. Stones get a tile based on their ore, soils are separated into sand and non-sand, gems are organized according to worth...And I'll have a lot more tiles to work with than Phoebus so I'll be able to create separate tiles for x2 value, x3 value, x5 value, etc.

[Max™]

Hmmm, I was confused for a bit because I was like "wait, isn't the point of the text and map tilesets to have unique ground/wall/etc tiles" but I didn't see you meant like per mineral type overrides.

[DragonDePlatino]

Hey, could someone please direct me to a save file from the File Depot with access to the circus? I need to make sure these magical holes of glowing wonder are displaying correctly.