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[NW_Kohaku]

Multi-tile creatures are to be implemented "eventually".  There's no reason to not implement something now when what would logically go with it will not be implemented until later.  We have [grazer] animals without carnivorous animals eating meat, after all. 

Introducing spilling of items could prevent minecart quantum stockpiling by simply filling tiles up to impassibility as per Volume and Mass, at which point items would start spilling into nearby tiles or filling tiles z-levels upwards, which would presumably block minecarts from dumping when the target tile was full and no further spillage zones were available.

Besides, "spilling" isn't even new to the game.

[Corona688]

Yes but...  the topic?  Minecarts will go from something which reduces micromanagement to something which causes it.

[NW_Kohaku]

Yes but...  the topic?  Minecarts will go from something which reduces micromanagement to something which causes it.

Actually, given that the topic merely says the following,

A method for bridging mechanisms to workshops and stockpiles.  An empty stockpile would send a 'connected' message, a full stockpile would send a 'disconnected' one, etc.

A rail switch would also be interesting, something to install at a T intersection to make a cart go left or straight depending on a signal.

It's not exactly explicit that the purpose of this thread is to reduce micromanagement.  What, precisely, IS the goal of this thread?

Besides, I'm not sure how that's strictly reducing micromanagement.  Minecarts are fairly micromanagement-heavy as-is, and this adds even more finnicky micromanagement of hauling operations to it.  All minecarts do is add automation to a routine by allowing extra player micromanagement. 

For that matter, whether or not your goal is a worth pursuing is, in general, something that can be called into question, itself.  Perhaps minecarts are something that make fortresses too simple in terms of stockpiling?

If the only purpose of this thread is to add a backdoor method of triggering a workshop to produce further goods, then I'll also point out that "Standing Production Orders" was a winner on the Eternal Voting page, and is being implemented into the game, already.  Standing production orders (If alcohol < 100, order alcohol production to resume. If alcohol > 300, order alcohol production suspended.) would/will be less micromanagement-intensive than triggering it by specific stockpile.

[helmacon]

I actually like this idea, though maybe not for its intended purpose. I could think of plenty of other ways this mechanic could come in useful. As you said yourself,

In its own way, finding ways to be creative with what you have is the real challenge and thrill of DF.

For example, you could use it as a sort of natural timer. A individual dwarf eats every X days, thus emptying his closed food stockpile in (approximately) Y amount of time. Then, it triggers actions that reopen the stockpile to food production outside the burrow (so the stockpile is refilled and the switch reset) and at the same time another action could happen. Say, floodgate A is opened to wash all the animals to the next pasture, because the pastures are sized to be emptied by your heard in Y amount of time.



I suppose that is still just exploiting the mechanic to create an artificial automation, but then again what's wrong with that? Your adding a game mechanic at a very basic level of the game, so there is a lot of functionality you can create depending how you build off that base.

That got a bit off topic, but the reason i like this game mechanic is that it would be useful to all kinds of players. It is a very easy to understand concept that is immediately useful to inexperienced players, and because its implemented at such a base level of the game more advanced players will be able to build off of what it gives them for greater reward.

*im taking the liberty of assuming that you could also link the stockpile to anything else that uses mechanisms

[NW_Kohaku]

For example, you could use it as a sort of natural timer. A individual dwarf eats every X days, thus emptying his closed food stockpile in (approximately) Y amount of time.

You get the same effect from setting a minecart to be pushed after a given interval of days, and having it pass over a pressure plate.  (The lack of reliability of the minecart pusher getting there exactly at the right time is no worse than the lack of reliability of a dwarf always finishing up a job before going to eat or being the same distance from a food stockpile.)

Now, again, I'm all for a whistle or some other mechanism that triggers a specific dwarf labor command upon its activation, without needing to specifically tie it to a stockpile.  It is preferable to have the most generic mechanisms possible, as they are more powerful in terms of coding time in to player utility out, and the Improved Mechanisms thread had discussions (or links to them) weeding it down to the most utilitarian mechanisms, like rotary power detectors for power in to signal out. (Although this is now possible with minecarts, which kind of proves the point of a single broadly applicable tool is more powerful than a dozen specialized tools.) That would be all kinds of useful/abusable, but it's also something so complex and game-y that I'm fairly sure Toady won't be convinced to do it, based upon what he's previously said about the topic.

[Dirst]

What, precisely, IS the goal of this thread?

Do you mind if I sig this?

[Corona688]

The idea is to extend a stockpile over a minecart, so the minecart runs when needed.  Right now it's only controlled by its input, and/or a timer.

[NW_Kohaku]

Do you mind if I sig this?

Sure, if you want.

The idea is to extend a stockpile over a minecart, so the minecart runs when needed.  Right now it's only controlled by its input, and/or a timer.

Oookay.  That's different than what I thought you meant. 

What I thought you meant was that a stockpile would send a signal to activate a job at a workshop.

So what you're saying is that you want to have a system where a minecart is launched at any time a stockpile is empty. 

If the signal is triggered by dwarf push, then it's not something that takes mechanisms, either.  It would logically just be a request for a new hauling menu cart route stop departure condition, which is a much smaller and more specific suggestion than I thought you were asking for.

[Corona688]

Yes, I wasn't too specific about how it would be connected, I knew people would have better ideas than I.

Track stops are toggleable by mechanism though -- you could have a circulating ore cart which only tips when a stockpile isn't dangerously full.  Or have it sitting on rollers which only push when a stockpile is empty.  And other such things like that.  Right now there's no feedback, it's open loop -- you can't even jam the track without some dwarf just carrying it down the stairs instead.

[NW_Kohaku]

Yes, I wasn't too specific about how it would be connected, I knew people would have better ideas than I.

Track stops are toggleable by mechanism though -- you could have a circulating ore cart which only tips when a stockpile isn't dangerously full.  Or have it sitting on rollers which only push when a stockpile is empty.  And other such things like that.  Right now there's no feedback, it's open loop -- you can't even jam the track without some dwarf just carrying it down the stairs instead.

Well, this is where one needs to be careful with terminology. 

A track stop is togglable via mechanisms, yet is incapable of sending a stopped cart anywhere.  It is also constructed, so rollers can't be built in the same tile.

A route stop has no relation to mechanisms, and is merely a dwarf behavior scripting point. 

If you want dwarves to push a cart when a stockpile is empty (or full, for that matter), then it makes sense for it to just be a route stop command, which requires no mechanisms.  Such a rolling cart could also be set up to run over a pressure plate while rolling if one desires a mechanical signal to be transmitted, however. 

A stockpile triggering a mechanism, itself, however (which would be required for a cart on a roller that only activates after a mechanical signal) requires new mechanisms, and would be far more complicated.  (Also note, it takes deliberate engineering to make a cart stop on a deactivated roller, as you cannot also put a track stop on a roller's tile.)