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Author Topic: Many Civs, no neighbors?  (Read 1969 times)

Albedo

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Many Civs, no neighbors?
« on: May 13, 2015, 11:54:53 am »

On the Embark screen, I had my choice of 7(!) Dwarven civs - great!

But on the World map, no neighbor ever lit up, nor do I seem to have any neighbors once I land on-site (when pressing {c}) - no Dwarves, no Humans, not even Elfses or Gobbos. When surfing around the world map, I see the order of all 4 races greyed-out, and these neighbors change as I move around the world-map, sometimes a race drops out or re-appears, even see the occasional "tower", but never have them listed on-site under {c}ivilizations.

Am I mis-reading the info, or maybe missing some "diplomat" skill to see neighbors (similar to "Appraiser" to see one's own wealth)? Or what?

(And, sorry - feel like I'm playing catch-up to a lot of generally-understood basics from old version changes.)
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Many Civs, no neighbors?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2015, 12:14:12 pm »

You're sort of misreading info :)

The embark screen shows what civs are in range (which change with location, of course), while the civ screen within the embarked fortress shows the civs that fortress has encountered. As caravans (or sieges) from different civs come to your fortress they will be added to the screen. I've never seen a black tower there, despite them attacking, so I don't think they count as civs. Both goblins and kobolds show up there after they've been encountered on your embark, though.
I've never seen any dwarven civ except my own, which I assume is due to only my own civ sending caravans. If you'd somehow ended up at war with another dwarven civ (if that's even possible), they ought to show up on the screen once they come aknocking.

Also note that in the latest version siegers actually travel from their site to you, which means they'll attack eligible targets in between before getting to you, and they have to actually be large enough to send a siege (a site with 10 goblins cannot reasonably attack with 50). This means sieges are rarer than before, so if you want a lot of them, you should make sure to embark close to the enemies.

One thing that took me a fair while to understand is that the selection of dwarven civ matters. Some might be dying, while others are in prime health (dying -> risk/chance for premature monarch election), and each civ also has its own relations to each of the other non dwarven civs (e.g. being at war with one goblin civ, but not the others, one being at war with an elf civ, but not the others, etc.). It seems your mother civ caravans are able to reach you regardless of distance (but caravans are not guaranteed to show up every time regardless).
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Albedo

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Re: Many Civs, no neighbors?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2015, 12:44:28 pm »

You're sort of misreading info :)

The embark screen shows what civs are in range (which change with location, of course), while the civ screen within the embarked fortress shows the civs that fortress has encountered. As caravans (or sieges) from different civs come to your fortress they will be added to the screen....

Oh ~ so they have to contact me first - got it. Phew!

Quote
Also note that in the latest version siegers actually travel from their site to you, which means they'll attack eligible targets in between before getting to you, and they have to actually be large enough to send a siege (a site with 10 goblins cannot reasonably attack with 50). This means sieges are rarer than before, so if you want a lot of them, you should make sure to embark close to the enemies.

Ah, good to know, thx! How close is "close enough", ballpark?

<decides how much he's itchin' fer a fight...>

Quote
One thing that took me a fair while to understand is that the selection of dwarven civ matters. Some might be dying, while others are in prime health (dying -> risk/chance for premature monarch election)...

<nods> Is there a way to see this before Embark?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Many Civs, no neighbors?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2015, 12:58:12 pm »

"Close enough" is the same as visible as neighbors on the pre embark screen. However, you should consider what's in between as well. I think the neighbor range in 12 top level tiles, but checking pre embark neighbors should be enough. If you want to be sure to get a fight you should embark so close to a civ you're at war with that you're the closest target, but I think the gobbos will attack you anyway unless you're somehow at peace if you're close enough.
I've got one embark where I have 2 region tiles between my 3*3 embark and a black tower. They came to celebrate the fortress' first birthday...

There are two pre embark indications:
- When embarking, a dead/dying civ will give a warning the same way as an aquifer or salt water does.
- I've very recently figured out that your civ's sites are marked in a different color on the pre embark screen. No sites or a small site is an indication.
- In addition to that, I understand you can export the world in legends mode and look at things there. I've never done it, so I can't give any further advice.
- However, chances are that if you're looking for a fight you want to be at war with gobbos (although undead are a tougher fight than living targets), and that seems to carry with it a high risk of dead/dying status.
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Albedo

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Re: Many Civs, no neighbors?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2015, 01:04:43 pm »

Coolio, thx!

I've got one embark where I have 2 region tiles between my 3*3 embark and a black tower. They came to celebrate the fortress' first birthday...

Um... were congratulations in order?  8)
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Many Civs, no neighbors?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2015, 01:18:48 pm »

They bore gifts in the form of precious metal (I embarked at a site without any metal at all, relying on goblinite [and candy later on]), but it WAS tricky catching all of them in only 4 cage traps (the 4:th was added when they entered the map, and only two were yet loaded at the time). Part of the problem was that I'd embarked at an area with 8 tiles treeless desert and 1 tile with sparse tree coverage to avoid a treeplosion FPS hit, but the sparse coverage consisted of only 1 feather tree. The first terraria were just being produced by the magma glass furnace by the magma sea when they came, so capture had to be done at the rate cages were produced.
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Cheedows

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Re: Many Civs, no neighbors?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2015, 09:28:59 pm »

Yeah, the civ screen only shows civs that you've had an encounter with as mentioned before. A dead or dying civ also carries the risk of one of your starting 7 becoming the monarch for your civilization. In my case, you'll oddly still get caravans and migrants just fine if there is at least 1 existing site in your civilization besides yours, even if dead or dying, although you do need access to your other civ site. What I find very helpful in embarking and world choosing in general is to use the Legends Viewer as mentioned (Google DF Legends Viwer and download) then before starting your fort load your desired world in legends. Do an incomplete xml dump and export the map, close DF and open legends viewer. From here you can see a map of the world, the civs and site locations. Gives you a very clear indication of how strong your civ is going, and the likelihood of being attacked. For example, you would be able to see if the sites in your civ have been captured or destroyed, and how many still exist. If your civ has several on going wars then attacks would be more likely, if goblins have almost been erradicated from the map by human crusades then it'll be less likely. I enjoy doing this with any world since it also gives you a better sense of the world dynamics between races.
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