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Author Topic: Should I go back on anti-depressants and how?  (Read 7888 times)

Jimmy

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Re: Should I go back on anti-depressants and how?
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2016, 05:18:10 am »

Out of curiosity, had you trialled venlafaxine (Efexor) prior to desvenlafaxine (Pristiq)?

Wyeth (now owned by Pfizer) released desvenlafaxine shortly after their patent expired on velafaxine, and is in essence the same medication, as venlafaxine is converted by your liver enzymes into desvenlafaxine. There's currently no data comparing the two, and while there's a small amount of difference depending on your personal enzyme profile, ultimately it's expected that clinical response to the two would be the same.

The biggest reason I ask is that venlafaxine, because it's no longer on patent, is now incredibly cheap compared to desvenlafaxine, which is still exclusive to Pfizer. If you're looking to save money on your meds, this particular option might be a good one to discuss with your treating psychiatrist.
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Djohaal

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Re: Should I go back on anti-depressants and how?
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2016, 07:46:31 pm »

Venlafaxine is a cheaper alternative to desvenlafaxine with similar (if not more studied efficacy) and from my experience so far only weak anedoctal evidence of a milder side effects profile. Sadly for the dual antidepressants class (norepinephrine and serotonin reuptake inhibitors, SNRI) such as venlafaxine, desvenlafaxine and duloxetine side effects are a tricky business. Efexor is jokingly called SideEfexor due to its tolerance profile, they are also notorious for having discontinuation syndrome, the ideal management is a slow taper in or out. (I've been on duloxetine personally, stopping it was one week of struggling with horrendous dizzyness and pain)

However again I must state I don't have neon's complete history to make any guesses or stronger advice on which drugs might be more appropriate. There's a school of thought in management of bipolar disorder (which I happen to follow) that considers treating bipolar depression with dual antidepressants or their older counterparts, tricyclics, an effort comparable to smothering a fire with paper towels. The particular combo of serotonin and norepinephrine seems to be a destabilizing agent in those patients leading to both mania and the very dangerous mixed episodes. Yet bipolar disorder is an extremely complex illness and you always encounter patients that benefit greatly from these drugs. Sadly we don't have any reliable means to discover that save from testing the drugs.
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I really want that one as a "when". I want "grubs", and "virgin woman" to turn into a dragon. and monkey children to suddenly sprout wings. And I want the Dwarven Mutant Academy to only gain their powers upon reaching puberty. I also have a whole host of odd creatures that only make sense if I divide them into children and adults.

Also, tadpoles.

Jimmy

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Re: Should I go back on anti-depressants and how?
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2016, 01:36:13 am »

Yeah, short of genetic screening processes becoming far more selective and specific, it's impossible to predict the exact pharmacological imbalance responsible for the depressive phase. Plus, even should that come to pass, it would be a short-sighted clinician who relies purely on pharmacotherapy alone for management of depression. It's a far more complex condition than simple brain chemistry, encompassing a variety of factors like social and physical stressors, with the need for a multimodal approach to properly address. Medications are just one of the supports that hold the entire structure together, and if you throw the entire weight of treatment on that one area, it's going to collapse eventually. Similarly, using a treatment ineffectively will do just as much harm.

It's amusing to boot up my copy of the latest update to the Australian Therapeutic Guidelines and take a refresher look at the treatment protocols for bipolar depression. It specifically calls out SNRIs as well as any other antidepressants with noradrenergic activity (or MAOIs, god forbid you ever have to go there) as more likely to provoke a rapid manic cycling pattern than SSRIs, but of course they're still first line treatment due to their efficacy. It's an ugly truth that we simply don't have sufficient tools to adequately tailor treatment to the individual short of trial and error.

I'm actually surprised to see you list aripiprazole as your doctor's choice of prophylactic therapy. Around here, the absolute most common prophylactic would be quetiapine, followed closely by olanzapine. I definitely wouldn't be second guessing your treating specialist, just expressing my own observations based on my own clinical experience.

One last question: Have you talked about the cost of the medicines you take with your pharmacist? If there's one health professional that knows every last method of squeezing down the cost of prescriptions, it would the them.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 01:56:19 am by Jimmy »
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Djohaal

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Re: Should I go back on anti-depressants and how?
« Reply #63 on: January 19, 2016, 04:13:01 am »

I personally almost never treat bipolar disorder without at least one classical mood stabilizer. Lithium, valproic acid, carbamazepine (as tricky as it is to manage) or lamotrigine. Of course monotherapy quetiapine has excellent results however. Big problem in my country is people affording it.
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I really want that one as a "when". I want "grubs", and "virgin woman" to turn into a dragon. and monkey children to suddenly sprout wings. And I want the Dwarven Mutant Academy to only gain their powers upon reaching puberty. I also have a whole host of odd creatures that only make sense if I divide them into children and adults.

Also, tadpoles.
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