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[nenjin]

it's a list of what I want in a partner, she meets about half the list.

Love is compromise.

You've talked a great deal about what you want, and what she isn't. And over the years I've come to feel that a primary requisite in a good relationship is liking someone for who they are.

Dating someone with the hopes they'll change is a recipe for disillusionment and unhappiness. Finding someone that you accept for who they are, even if there are some parts you wish were different, is a more stable relationship than one where you're always going "I like you but...."

I've dated a number of.....fragile women as well. I thought I was helping by trying to work through some of the stuff that troubled them, and me. Every relationship has some of that. But there is a line that is quickly crossed, where you're not really helping anymore. You're just making them feel bad for who they are in life, and for the fact they're not what you really want.

What the heart wants isn't unreasonable. Wanting it all is though. Wanting it all despite knowing the kind of person you're dating is even more unreasonable.

For example, wanting them to be religious (specifically, your religion AND your church) wanting them to be ok with you going into the military, wanting them to be as social as you.....that is a lot of expectations to drop on someone who doesn't feel or practice those things already. (Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't, I'm just generalizing.)

Maybe instead of asking whether or not you're being unreasonable in wanting these things out of her, maybe ask if you're being unreasonable in continuing a relationship on the pretext something needs to change. There's nothing wrong with saying "we don't really work out together." I tend to have more respect for people who are willing to go their own way because it's what's best for them, then people who try to change or mold people to fit their desires.

And from personal experience.....no one likes someone actively trying to change them, implying they're "broken" in some way. You're young, and being young comes with a lot of well-meaning but sometimes destructive "try hard." I was super guilty of it in my first few serious relationships. Ask yourself, if nothing about this chick changed for the rest of your life, would you still be happy being with her? If the answer is no, I think you should move on as the best thing for both you and her.

*quasi ninja'd by Bauglir*

[Capaverde]

I wouldn't say unreasonable, but completely delusional. The way you phrase it sounds as if you're thinking it's just a matter of attracting everyone you can and then rejecting those who don't fit your criteria until there's only a few left.
Relationships aren't born like that, they're made. You yourself must prove worthy of someone who won't lie to you, who will share their problems with you and let you confide in them, who you can live together with, who makes you a better person, etc, etc. It might come as a surprise to you, but those things shouldn't be taken for granted. Relationships actually mutate and adapt as you become more and more comfortable with each other and start building up more and more trust and respect for one another.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I wouldn't say unreasonable, but completely delusional. The way you phrase it sounds as if you're thinking it's just a matter of attracting everyone you can and then rejecting those who don't fit your criteria until there's only a few left.
Relationships aren't born like that, they're made. You yourself must prove worthy of someone who won't lie to you, who will share their problems with you and let you confide in them, who you can live together with, who makes you a better person, etc, etc. It might come as a surprise to you, but those things shouldn't be taken for granted. Relationships actually mutate and adapt as you become more and more comfortable with each other and start building up more and more trust and respect for one another.

Did I not say I expect myself to meet those criteria for her as well?


Also we've been dating over a year, we were really close for at least six months and now it just feels like she's drifting away and she's changed a lot since we started dating..

I don't know if she still loves me anymore .-.
I dunno...


Thanks for all the advice everyone

[sneakey pete]

I wouldn't say unreasonable, but completely delusional. The way you phrase it sounds as if you're thinking it's just a matter of attracting everyone you can and then rejecting those who don't fit your criteria until there's only a few left.
Relationships aren't born like that, they're made. You yourself must prove worthy of someone who won't lie to you, who will share their problems with you and let you confide in them, who you can live together with, who makes you a better person, etc, etc. It might come as a surprise to you, but those things shouldn't be taken for granted. Relationships actually mutate and adapt as you become more and more comfortable with each other and start building up more and more trust and respect for one another.

Did I not say I expect myself to meet those criteria for her as well?

Honestly that isn't really a good way to look at it.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

It's not a good way to look at it?
Having myself meet my criteria and whatever they want as well or at least a lot of what they want?

[sneakey pete]

Let me put it this way, one of your points was that she should join the same church as you. Yet you say that she should expect the same from you, so why aren't you joining the same church as her?

[nenjin]

In other words, the criteria you listed are your criteria, not hers. Some of your criteria are just generally good things (don't lie and cheat on me.) Those are the easy ones however.

Have you honestly thought about what she wants, and if what she wants is actually important to you? Being an introvert for the most part, I'd find a partner who wanted me to constantly be doing stuff, meeting people, being public, exhausting. Consider that in the situation with her friend at that prom, it might have almost been painful for her to go interrupt them and insert herself into something she didn't start.

There's understanding how the person you're with feels, and then there's actually caring about it above your own priorities.

[Orange Wizard]

Have you honestly thought about what she wants, and if what she wants is actually important to you? Being an introvert for the most part, I'd find a partner who wanted me to constantly be doing stuff, meeting people, being public, exhausting. Consider that in the situation with her friend at that prom, it might have almost been painful for her to go interrupt them and insert herself into something she didn't start.

There's understanding how the person you're with feels, and then there's actually caring about it above your own priorities.

This, pretty much.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Let me put it this way, one of your points was that she should join the same church as you. Yet you say that she should expect the same from you, so why aren't you joining the same church as her?

If she already goes to a church then fine, if I ever get married I want to go to a church we both agree on.
The problem I have now is that she went to my church and enjoyed it and met my friends then one week out of the blue dropped it, said she didn't like it and went to a different church. She was an atheist when we started dating

Have you honestly thought about what she wants, and if what she wants is actually important to you? Being an introvert for the most part, I'd find a partner who wanted me to constantly be doing stuff, meeting people, being public, exhausting. Consider that in the situation with her friend at that prom, it might have almost been painful for her to go interrupt them and insert herself into something she didn't start.

There's understanding how the person you're with feels, and then there's actually caring about it above your own priorities.

This, pretty much.

Ok I can understand that.
I kinda feel like at this point it would be better for us to just be friends than continue this relationship because if she doesn't change, she's not someone I would be happy to be with forever.



And to throw it out there it's not like I do nothing to compromise for her or don't do anything for her.

[NullForceOmega]

Let me put it this way, one of your points was that she should join the same church as you. Yet you say that she should expect the same from you, so why aren't you joining the same church as her?

If she already goes to a church then fine, if I ever get married I want to go to a church we both agree on.
The problem I have now is that she went to my church and enjoyed it and met my friends then one week out of the blue dropped it, said she didn't like it and went to a different church. She was an atheist when we started dating

Have you honestly thought about what she wants, and if what she wants is actually important to you? Being an introvert for the most part, I'd find a partner who wanted me to constantly be doing stuff, meeting people, being public, exhausting. Consider that in the situation with her friend at that prom, it might have almost been painful for her to go interrupt them and insert herself into something she didn't start.

There's understanding how the person you're with feels, and then there's actually caring about it above your own priorities.

This, pretty much.

Ok I can understand that.
I kinda feel like at this point it would be better for us to just be friends than continue this relationship because if she doesn't change, she's not someone I would be happy to be with forever.



And to throw it out there it's not like I do nothing to compromise for her or don't do anything for her.

Cryxis, I've been married for almost six years, and I'm going to be honest here.  This is not a healthy attitude you are displaying.  You are young.  You do not have any idea what you really want from a relationship, I'll  grant, not everything that you say you want is unreasonable, but your attitude towards it is toxic.  The words 'if she doesn't change' should not EVER come from your mind or your mouth in terms of a relationship.  Relationships DO NOT FUNCTION THAT WAY.  A relationship is an ongoing dialog, with each side giving where necessary, the attitude you have displayed and reported her showing across your posting history regarding your relationship has NO FLEX, and is therefore doomed to failure.
For your own good, end this, chalk it up to a learning experience, and try to approach the next one with some GODDAMN FLEXIBILTY.

[Bauglir]

The words 'if she doesn't change' should not EVER come from your mind or your mouth in terms of a relationship.

This is somewhat the case. Under no circumstances should this be a contingency in your mind, or worse yet an ultimatum spoken, of the "Okay, well if she does these things, I'll work on it, otherwise it's not worth it." What I've meant to indicate is that you should consider these things when you're trying to figure out what to do, but once you figure that out you should make one decision and stick with it. Do not allow the relationship itself to become leverage.

Of course, this assertion of mine to hold fast to a particular choice is curiously compatible with the exhortation to be flexible, which NullForceOmega is absolutely right about being important in the future. Making up your mind on what overall course you think is healthy doesn't mean being obstinate in your day-to-day conduct, nor does it mean having a go-to list of qualities where you drop the relationship if they are not met. It just means being clear to yourself about what you want, so you don't find yourself grasping at inappropriate mechanisms to get what you feel an impulse toward (like the usual instinct to win an argument, defend yourself from criticism, or help somebody solve a problem).

Remember, your SO is basically your Player 2 in life; they're independently in this, and to get what you want you're going to have to work together. And if that's just not very much fun (or whatever your goal happens to be), it's probably best to part ways amicably rather than start handing out blame (no matter how tempting it may feel if Blue Wizard keeps stealing all the food, DAMMIT, CARL, YOU KNEW I NEEDED THAT).

[nenjin]

I think you know you really want to be someone when you find yourself willing to compromise for the other person's sake because you want to, not because it's some sort of transactional relationship where you do this for me and I do this for you. (Although I've heard really long marriages can reach that place.) It can go too far of course, where one person is giving too much to please the other person in the relationship. But it's supposed to be a two way street of freely given compromises rather than conceded ones. "Well, you know, I don't necessarily want to stay in tonight, but I'll do it because I love you." That sort of thing. When too much emotional energy is going one direction in a relationship, either one side is giving too much or pulling in too much, it's becoming unbalanced.

[Capaverde]

I wouldn't say unreasonable, but completely delusional. The way you phrase it sounds as if you're thinking it's just a matter of attracting everyone you can and then rejecting those who don't fit your criteria until there's only a few left.
Relationships aren't born like that, they're made. You yourself must prove worthy of someone who won't lie to you, who will share their problems with you and let you confide in them, who you can live together with, who makes you a better person, etc, etc. It might come as a surprise to you, but those things shouldn't be taken for granted. Relationships actually mutate and adapt as you become more and more comfortable with each other and start building up more and more trust and respect for one another.

Did I not say I expect myself to meet those criteria for her as well?


Also we've been dating over a year, we were really close for at least six months and now it just feels like she's drifting away and she's changed a lot since we started dating..

I don't know if she still loves me anymore .-.
I dunno...


Thanks for all the advice everyone

The things I listed aren't criteria to be filled individually, but something to meet depending on your partner and how you feel about them. You said you expect yourself to meet those criteria? So you expect yourself to never lie to your partner, share your problems with them and let them confide in you, be able to live together with, make them a better person, etc? Out of those, which do you already to currently? Do you share your problems with your partner, and have you shared this problem with them too? If not, why? Do you try to make them a better person, or do you expect to be able to do so somehow? Do you feel like you're getting the worst of the relationship, that while you give all these nice things to her she won't return the favor?

"Also we've been dating over a year, we were really close for at least six months and now it just feels like she's drifting away and she's changed a lot since we started dating.. "

Maybe you're pushing her away somehow? Since when has she been like that? How did it start?

"I don't know if she still loves me anymore .-.
I dunno..."

Is that whole list of criteria supposed to be summed up with 'someone who loves me'? 'Someone who helps me with any need, emotional or otherwise that I might have', 'someone who accepts all the things I believe in and stand for and even holds it in their own heart', 'someone I can completely depend upon because they have a deep feeing of love cemented in them that won't let them turn away from me'. And then you say you expect yourself to meet those criteria as well, meaning you'll love back anyone who you know will love you unconditionally, as if it was something hard when they're already that invested in you and have little personal problems themselves. It seems you're not really into loving the person but in loving what they bring.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Yes I meet those criteria.
I try my best to help her be better if I can. I listen to her problems and I tell her about mine, and I've talked about some of these problems with her.
Once again she isn't very emotionally strong and she's already been super stressed and depressed, I'm not going to be the one to put on the straw that breaks the camels back.

Yes I expect myself to do all those things for her too and I try my hardest too, did you think I'm just some prick who wants a woman who worships me while I sit here doing nothing?
I've got friends that tell me she's not healthy for me and that I'm whipped. This was just a thread for me to vent off every problem I have sit this relationship, working to make her happy sure as hell isn't one of those problems. And the reason I said I feel like she's drifting away isn't because I'm pushing her away (unless I'm missing something, I've been trying my hardest to spend time with her because we don't do that much anymore and cheer her up) but she's just been doing a lot of subtle things that make it seem like she's not at all passionate about this relationship any more. (Even a few hill dutiful things on her part, hypocritical being things she's gotten mad at me for and expecting me to be fine with her doing them)


To the above posts, ya you're probably right, this isn't a healthy relationship. When I said "if she doesn't change" that wasn't to mean it in that drastic of a way, I can compromise but there are some things too important for me to compromise (I'm sure as hell not dating someone who hates me for joining the military).

[NullForceOmega]

Cryxis, it doesn't matter if you meant it in a drastic way, the fact that you said it at all is the problem.  It means that the idea is already in full bloom in your head, that unconsciously or otherwise you have accepted the 'my way or the highway' attitude.

I'm going to say it again: You. Are. Young.  You have NO IDEA what you actually want in a long-term relationship, because you have no idea what a long-term relationship IS.  For crying out loud, I am nearly twice your age, and I didn't know what I wanted from a relationship until seven years ago.

I get that you feel like the effort you are putting into the relationship is not being reciprocated, but seriously, you should consider carefully that you may be the reason for the widening gap.  You have indicated that she has some emotional issues, from experience (my wife's ex and parents psychologically abused her) your pushing to 'fix her problems' may be the very thing that is creating the wedge.  Have you considered that maybe she just needs some time to sit and sort through the crap in her head?

Your attitude is TOXIC to any relationship, it never gets to be 'I'm doing this for you, so you should be doing that for me', it only gets to be 'I'm trying to help, what do you need?'