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[MDFification]

The larger the creature, generally speaking, the more "evolved" they are. 

Just a nitpick, but what NW_Kohaku is referring to isn't a hierarchy of evolution like the thread seems to think, but rather that the larger a creature is the more complex the creature.

Remember that DF is a world with a creature that can apparently metabolize evil as its primary food source. There's no need to bicker about scientific accuracy unless creatures become modeled differently in the future (right now, they're just a series of tissue layers and organs, with no further details on their biology).

Back to the topic of the thread; chitin actually is edible for most mammals (you eat it in mushrooms). Most exoskeletons however are not pure chitin, and include elements like calcium to make the exoskeleton more rigid and durable.

The main reason humans don't mill chitin into flower and make Exoskeleton Bread is that there aren't a ton of good sources of Chitin. Most arthropods have highly nutricious protein anyway, so typically we just eat that and throw the shell away instead of spending the effort to collect and store the potentially hundreds of exoskeletons needed to get enough chitin to make it worth our while, develop a process for turning that into a more palatable food and refining out undesirable elements, and then talk people into eating it. It's not about impossibility, it's about effort. As an athropology student, I should point out that only in marginally habitable environments is every possible calorie processed and consumed. We're an inherently lazy species; most hunter-gatherer groups have a capacity to create a surplus and don't because it's too much work. Just because we don't do it doesn't mean it's impossible.

I've seen plenty of mods which turn the current waste materials (feathers, chitin, scales) into crafting goods, but incorporating it into the base game is something I'd support. Each fort I've played has only used a small fraction of the available industries anyway, so more options really only makes the UI marginally more cluttered. It'd be worth it to give players options.

[GiglameshDespair]

As far as I can see with the cricket flour here the crickets are ground up whole after roasting.

[BoredVirulence]

The larger the creature, generally speaking, the more "evolved" they are. 

Just a nitpick, but what NW_Kohaku is referring to isn't a hierarchy of evolution like the thread seems to think, but rather that the larger a creature is the more complex the creature.

I don't think anyone in the thread thought that.

I do think a healthy amount of conjecture about the realism of a system helps to better model improvements when it isn't strictly fantasy. I.E, are giant spiders magic, or not? Considering the low fantasy setting of DF, I think not, and the scientific merit of how their bodies should work is both a valid question, and helps to make their waste products more valuable. To bypass the square-cube law, the giant insect or arachnid needs a stronger exoskeleton, which would make their chitin more useful. Their body would also probably be more muscular, which would affect meat yields. They would also need more advanced organs, which were mentioned, but that may not manifest into potential changes for the game considering the abstraction.

Saying that we can ignore science because goblins can metabolize evil is to claim that subject is a magical entity, and not everything is magic in DF.

I wouldn't be opposed to current chitin being edible. I wouldn't be opposed to a modified exoskeleton being edible, depending on the modification. On the contrary, edible chitin could be important for different uncivilized animal men. I don't really see a reason why dwarves would do it though, because as MDFification said, people are lazy, and its probably safe to assume dwarves would be similarly lazy with food preparation if they could be. But I am certainly not opposed to it.

[Vattic]

Chitin might be polished and used for crafts. Some insects are gem like and very pretty.

I like to imagine oxygen levels are higher to permit larger insects. From what I understand insects could be larger, but they evolved smaller after structural limitations lost them the size battle against endoskeleton bearing creatures.

it's impossible to support more mass than an elephant terrestrially unless it were made of materials with a better structural support-to-weight ratio than bone.

I thought there were heavier dinosaurs.

[GiglameshDespair]

it's impossible to support more mass than an elephant terrestrially unless it were made of materials with a better structural support-to-weight ratio than bone.

I thought there were heavier dinosaurs.

There were many land-walking dinosaurs larger and heavier than elephants. So yes, NW_Kohaku is quite incorrect there.



Elephants are quite small in comparison to some creatures that once walked the earth.

[Alfrodo]

As far as I can see with the cricket flour here the crickets are ground up whole after roasting.

Holy crap, that's amazing, but I think most of the nutrients/calories come from the inside of the cricket, not the chitin. But I guess that's something we should discuss, since we're talking exclusive chitin (exoskeleton) here. Dorfs eat the other internal bits currently anyhow.

Chitin might be polished and used for crafts. Some insects are gem like and very pretty.

I guess I'll add that to the original post, it also kinda falls under the idea of Chitin = Confusing Leather, since leather crafts and decorations are possible.

[AceSV]

Not to mention mammoths and indricatheres (whatever we call them now) were also bigger than modern elephants. 

I was talking to a biologist about this thread and he suggested that if you had a way to dissolve chitin, you might be able to reassemble it into thread.  We googled chitinase (chitin enzyme) and discovered that a lot of animals have it, including some humans, but I don't understand biology enough to want to figure out where and why it shows up exactly.  But one of easy sources of chitinase is barley, which is also related to alcohol production in human societies. 

But that would suggest that chitin might be useful in a lot of easy medieval chemical reactions.  The real barrier to chitin crafting in human history was the lack of enormous arthropods. 

[GiglameshDespair]

But one of easy sources of chitinase is barley, which is also related to alcohol production in human societies.

Bug booze? Cockroach cider?

[Alfrodo]

To add to the weight/support discussion. I discovered this:

If a medium size world has a circumference of 147,456m (Which assumes that each fortress tile is 1.5 x 1.5 metres)

then, some math and physics later, gave me the result of an acceleration due to gravity of 3.8 m/s/s (some rounding, give or take 0.2 m/s/s)

That means, that the giant bugs would have about 2/5ths of the force acting on them. However, I'm reasonably sure that DF uses earth gravity, with dwarves not having enormous heights due to the lower gravity, or being able to jump to the top of a small house in one leap.

[AceSV]

To add to the weight/support discussion. I discovered this:

If a medium size world has a circumference of 147,456m (Which assumes that each fortress tile is 1.5 x 1.5 metres)

then, some math and physics later, gave me the result of an acceleration due to gravity of 3.8 m/s/s (some rounding, give or take 0.2 m/s/s)

That means, that the giant bugs would have about 2/5ths of the force acting on them. However, I'm reasonably sure that DF uses earth gravity, with dwarves not having enormous heights due to the lower gravity, or being able to jump to the top of a small house in one leap.

That assumes that the planet is mostly silicate, iron and aluminum, like Earth is.  Saturn has about half the volume of Jupiter, but less than 1/20th the gravity, because it's made of different stuff.  Also the official tiles dimensions are 2x2x3m and the "worldgen" technically creates regions, not entire planets. 

[StupidElves]

To add to the weight/support discussion. I discovered this:

If a medium size world has a circumference of 147,456m (Which assumes that each fortress tile is 1.5 x 1.5 metres)

then, some math and physics later, gave me the result of an acceleration due to gravity of 3.8 m/s/s (some rounding, give or take 0.2 m/s/s)

That means, that the giant bugs would have about 2/5ths of the force acting on them. However, I'm reasonably sure that DF uses earth gravity, with dwarves not having enormous heights due to the lower gravity, or being able to jump to the top of a small house in one leap.

I thought that a DF tile was 2x2x3?

[GiglameshDespair]

Yeah.
Check the post before yours, SE.

[Alfrodo]

Oh.

*facepalms*

The fact my "worlds" have names like "The legendary Planet" threw me off.

[LMeire]

Another use: Brightly colored creatures might have chitin that could be ground up and used for dyes. In real life, cochineal beetles supply the majority of red natural dyes in the form of "carmine" in their exoskeletons, AKA "Red Dye #4".

[Alfrodo]

Another use: Brightly colored creatures might have chitin that could be ground up and used for dyes. In real life, cochineal beetles supply the majority of red natural dyes in the form of "carmine" in their exoskeletons, AKA "Red Dye #4".

Hmm. I guess you're right. I guess that might be a way to get more dyes into the game.

(We only have black, blue, red and green, we still need purple, golden, teal, fuchsia, orange and brown!