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[Spehss _]

Unless you're into literally being carried around and rubbed on people's injuries.

That's probably someone's fetish somewhere.

I'm surprised there's a class for Healer. I figured the cleric acted as the healer who could also hit things or smite things.

[sambojin]

Back to fifth.....

I actually like that the levelling system gets you more optimized for "stuff". Not super optimized, just in a general direction.

"Here, have some stats. You're way better at some things now. Well, umm, like a tiny bit better. But those things don't get too hard usually. Plus you're sometimes better at heaps of stuff. Or heaps better at specific stuff. You can multi-class, but you don't have to. You'll still be pretty good at some stuff. You DID make sure you optimized, didn't you? Oh well, shit happens. Theatre of the mind and all that. I hope you can roleplay or think a bit. Otherwise you're really fucked."

Note: This is a lot better than 2nd, 3rd, 3.5, or probably even 4th (which should be an awesome turn-based computer game).

5th's kind of nice. Any class can do a bit of "stuff". Different pathways for everyone at third level at the latest. Spells if you want them. Multi-class if you want. But you often don't have to so that you can contribute.

Munchkin away, but honestly not necessary. Hell, I post on min/max boards. There's enough fluff in 5th that even when going for a very narrow build that is specifically good at something, you've got heaps of stuff to do as well. In the core rules, no splat-books. So has every other vaguely coherent character, statted or RP'd. 'Tis nice.

There's statistically better and worse characters at doing some things, but virtually every character can be roleplayed as a character, not a stat block. The DM can adjust the flow of an adventure to almost any setting or style, because it really is up to the players on what they'll do and how they'll cooperate.

Power Attack no. Walking, talking, thinking or collaboration for adventure? Yeah. It's not perfect, but I tend to think it's the best balance between rules and DM storytelling so far for DnD, with inclusivity of player actions actually meaningful without godlike stat crunching and feat taking.

[Neonivek]

5th edd eliminates a lot of midmaxing simply because even if you try to not midmax you end up pretty close to it anyway.

[sambojin]

Yep. And as long as you take a reasonably thought out concept, be it due to background, or race, or class (not necessarily inclusive with each other), you can contribute to a party with feats or skills or magic or your contacts. At level 1. Even if you have 10 stats across the board.

There's min/maxing of course, but there doesn't NEED to be. Never really was, but it's up there, front and centre in 5th, core on character creation and DM world making.

[My Name is Immaterial]

On 5e: It's fun. I like it. I recommend it.
On optimization: I know 3.5 is broken, and I treat it as such. I play it to be silly with my characters.

Or, if you looked at Healer, "Eeeeeeeeeeh." 

I looked at Healer and thought: Hey, low tier means I can get away with stupid amounts of cheese!
For Taw's level 20 game, I built a healer that had the the ability to cast a total of 74 spells as Empowered, out of a total of 80 spells a day, not including SLAs and At Will SLAs and give out infinite healing. It ended up with me walking around with 19 Cloud Dragons for the entire day, each day.

[Neonivek]

In all fairness whenever someone refers to a REALLY broken 3.5 build... usually what is breaking it is obvious.

In that they are from supplementary books meant to be carefully reviewed by the DM before allowing it.

Very few things are "naturally broken" and when they are they are usually books no DM allows like Savage Species (though I think people exaggerate how broken that is... if anything you end up rather underpowered) or have long been patched (such as the Psionics books).

[Flying Dice]

On 5e: It's fun. I like it. I recommend it.
On optimization: I know 3.5 is broken, and I treat it as such. I play it to be silly with my characters.

Or, if you looked at Healer, "Eeeeeeeeeeh." 

I looked at Healer and thought: Hey, low tier means I can get away with stupid amounts of cheese!
For Taw's level 20 game, I built a healer that had the the ability to cast a total of 74 spells as Empowered, out of a total of 80 spells a day, not including SLAs and At Will SLAs and give out infinite healing. It ended up with me walking around with 19 Cloud Dragons for the entire day, each day.

Oh, yeah, the class can be broken just as easily as almost anything else in 3.5e, it's just that a lot of the brokenness is channeled into being a walking Wand of Cure ALL the Wounds, and being a literal healbot with side benefits is something you'd have to enjoy. I can see having fun with it with a party that didn't powergame too hard, though, with a fun character concept. The class is perfect for innocent character archetypes. Also "innocent" if they're partners with a real legbreaker and use their healing to aid in torture.

[GiglameshDespair]

Actually, there being an actual reward for good RP in the form of Inspiration is a addition to 5e that really tickles my bones. It's a good thing.

[Sergarr]

In all fairness whenever someone refers to a REALLY broken 3.5 build... usually what is breaking it is obvious.

In that they are from supplementary books meant to be carefully reviewed by the DM before allowing it.

Very few things are "naturally broken" and when they are they are usually books no DM allows like Savage Species (though I think people exaggerate how broken that is... if anything you end up rather underpowered) or have long been patched (such as the Psionics books).

Some spells are REALLY broken when properly used, like illusions. Major Image defeats all non- and low-intelligent monsters, no matter how high their saves are, because it doesn't allow a save unless you touch it. And it's a core spell.

Like nearly half of the spells that fvcking kill people are core ones.

[Sensei]

Sure, you say that now but have you really every had someone go nuts with Complete Arcane?

[Sergarr]

Sure, you say that now but have you really every had someone go nuts with Complete Arcane?

I've seen Character Optimization boards, yes.

[thegoatgod_pan]

5e is the best edition, it drops the absolute lack of balance and insane design that defines AD&D, it is not bloated with feats and classes and other excesses like 3.5, making it more accessible and it is less of a drag in combat than 4e which really does take forever to play out.

Advantage/Disadvantage is an elegant mechanic, the spellcasters are a little restrained by Concentration, the melees still suffer, but can be adjusted.

Not saying it is perfect: e.g. obviously things like Druid of the Moon remain broken in the tradition of druidic brokenness, but monks are totally viable now and the Monster Manual is the best to date.

If only, if only spell were not organized utterly uselessly alphabetically, that alone makes me hesitant to say that 5e did it all right.

[Flying Dice]

See, I've been hearing people talk about how broken Moon Circle Druids are almost since the day they were introduced, people making a big thing about that self-transformation being OP. It's well on the way to being errata'd, but the thing is... The character can only transform into things they've seen. This drops a lot of the better forms out of the running, unless the DM is a complete doormat who lets the player have a backstory where their 1st level character has survived encountering a Dire Wolf, Giant Spider, &c.

That, and it's OP... at low levels. The cutoff that gets mentioned a lot is ~6th level, because the transformation supposedly doesn't scale very well. The common solution that's usually offered is to set encounter difficulty as if the Druid was 1-2 levels higher for the first couple levels, to help offset the advantage of all that free HP.

[Neonivek]

Some spells are REALLY broken when properly used, like illusions. Major Image defeats all non- and low-intelligent monsters, no matter how high their saves are, because it doesn't allow a save unless you touch it. And it's a core spell.

Like nearly half of the spells that fvcking kill people are core ones.

It defeats no intelligence monsters mostly but not "low-intelligence monsters"

And the exact wording is "interact" not touch and this interaction can simply be "looking" at it... and even then if you cause disbelief somehow such as by walking through the illusion while they can see it, it still causes the disbelief to occur (as does making it appear during battle I believe).

Though Pathfinder did patch this up.

As well the "kill spells" have a fatal weakness of all being based off of Fort... and any monster worth its salt has an insanely high amount of fort or is immune to death spells. Then again I never liked the kill spells.

[Cthulhu]

Phantasmal Killer and Wail of the Banshee are will.  Symbol of Death kills up to x HD worth of targets with no save.