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[Egan_BW]

They do profit in that scheme, though. They profit from mods with how things are NOW.

[Dunamisdeos]

In terms of extending the life and content of their game, yes. The idea that they should profit monetarily is, to use a dramatic term, obscene.

Modding is a way to show approval for and practice what is frankly a form of art. It creates a sense of community that is free of monetization and work-for-profit. It is special now because people are taking their free time and making a thing better just for the sake of it.

To let something like this be tainted with corporate monetization removes the reason it exists in the first place. Whether or not they are going to crowd out or take over the modding community tomorrow is irrelevant, because this gives them or someone down the road all the tools and precedent they need. They have all the same rights that the creator of the mod does, it's essentially 100% joint ownership.

It's like we are building Pandora's box in the hopes that probably no one will open it.

[Putnam]

The creation club is out and I still don't know of any arguments against paid mods besides "modders don't deserve to be paid"

The argument isn't that modders don't deserve to be paid, it's that companies don't deserve to be paid for the work modders do.

You can say that, but it's obviously not the case.

Oh, I've seen mods that are very worth paying for and that I WOULD pay for, but it is the principle of the matter.

Y'know what, I AM against paying modders.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

I've already explained my position, Putnam. It's ridiculous to pay modders, but if the mod is amazing then I will begrudgingly fork over the cash.

[scriver]

Well, you could say

The creation club is out and I still don't know of any arguments against paid mods besides "modders don't deserve to be paid"

And that is obviously not the case unless you focus entirely on what Scoopbeard said and deliberately choose to ignore everyone else.

[Putnam]

Again, most of these arguments are against the creators' club and the previous implementation. I've seen no argument against the entire concept of paying modders besides "modders don't deserve to be paid", besides "there's a chance that licensing mods might cause community issues" (which I saw since I made that post), which would be an extremely good point were it not that KSP and Minecraft modding are quite strong despite all that.

[Retropunch]

Again, most of these arguments are against the creators' club and the previous implementation. I've seen no argument against the entire concept of paying modders besides "modders don't deserve to be paid", besides "there's a chance that licensing mods might cause community issues" (which I saw since I made that post), which would be an extremely good point were it not that KSP and Minecraft modding are quite strong despite all that.

There seem to be some pretty good arguments here that aren't just 'dont pay modders lol'. Don't you think it'll fragment games even more, so you'll have to pay for each bit individually? (which we already have to with a lot of 4x/strategy games)

Wouldn't you also agree that there's a chance that companies will start favouring certain mods over others now that it's a whole corporate thing?

What about issues on using mod content in other mods? That is going to go away very, very quickly if there starts to be money on the table.

[CABL]

It is all about Creation Club. The state it has been launched is downright pathetic for AAA studio, and it can't be defended even by the most rabid Bethesdrones. The mods themselves are basically "1 armor for 5 dollars", and let's not forget that Chinese Stealth Armor exist on Nexus mods for free, and that was a few months before E3 2017, aka The Most Embarrassing E3 Ever. Oh, and Hellfire Armor I've mentioned in my previous post? It's free on Nexus mods too! Mudcrab Armor? Not Dwarven, but Daedric Mudcrab is a thing, and it's not like there's a shortage of mudcrab skins/maymay mods. Bethesda also charges 5 dollars for a literal power armor called "Horse Armor"... Are they trying to pander to memers or they just have the most awful sense of humor on this mostly blue planet we call "Earth"? If they actually showed us things like high-quality mods or weapon PACKS (emphasis on the "packs", aka multiple weapons in one mod for 5$), the people wouldn't be as angry with Creation Club as they are now. It's completely their fault for not even trying to understand what the playerbase wants, they just think that every customer is a braindead moron who will literally eat a hot-dog with penguin feces instead of sausage in it... Fuck Zenimax, and fuck Bethesda for being so inept at understanding simple marketing...

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

It's completely their fault for not even trying to understand what the playerbase wants, they just think that every customer is a braindead moron who will literally eat a hot-dog with penguin feces instead of sausage in it... Fuck Zenimax, and fuck Bethesda for being so inept at understanding simple marketing...

I mean, their games have been reducing in standalone quality and becoming more a vessel for mods.  Thinking back on Skyrim, I find it kinda weak as a standalone experience.

[Blaze]

Paid Mods/10

Edit: Wow, at the time of this post, Creation Club has just gone live. And it is an utter clusterfort.

1. It forces you to download EVERY MOD that exists in the creation club, all 2.1gb.
2. Those files are unencrypted, but missing the plugin files. So someone could just create a plugin to use those assets.
3. Someone already has.
4. Utterly destroys your load order by forcing plugin files to be loaded alphabetically. This cannot be undone without rolling back.
5. Reports are surfacing that paid mods do not work with free mods, such as the pip-boy skins mod not working with completely unrelated mods.
6. One of the files is literally named "Horse Armor" way to rub salt in the wound Zennymax.

[Dunamisdeos]

Consumers: All of our unpaid mods stopped working because you ruined our load order, or because our paid mods conflict. You specifically promised that this exact situation would not arise. And now you want us to buy mods that are the same, but of lower quality!

Zenimax/Bethesda: What can I say, except...

[Blaze]

The more I look into it, the more I see that the Creation Club was destined to fail from the beginning.

The "download the entire creation club mod list" thing was due to the 900MB limit per game for non-essential files on the PS4, by forcing everyone to download the game as an "update" for the main game was to get around this. But there was literally no reason to do so for PC and Xbox users (Xbox has a 2GB limit, which is fairly adequate).

The absolute limit for records per mod in the Creation Club is 4096. That may sound like a lot, but considering every sound, object, item, event trigger, leveled list, dialogue, etc takes up a record, you'd have trouble fitting all but the most basic of mods, especially if you plan to add a quest.

With that kind of restriction I can't really see CC as anything more than a tool to peddle all those nickle-and-dime mods that add an "EPIC ARMOR" and such.

[Putnam]

yes, the creation club is absolutely stupid in every way, i'm not sure there's much more to say about it

[WealthyRadish]

Something occurred to me while reviewing some of Paradox Interactive's terrible mod policies that I think may be an additional argument against paid mods.

Companies are currently able to regulate the content of mods (or add rules for their distribution) within services that they own or have authority over, like a forum, website, client, the steam workshop, etc, but at least on PC there exist external places for people to share and distribute mods that companies do not exert control over. Third parties may issue a cease and desist to these sites over copyright violations, but generally the company owning the game will never consider it worthwhile to police the content of mods distributed elsewhere that violate their "home rules".

If that company were selling paid mods, however, they would suddenly have a need to police people taking the very easy step of copying a paid mod and distributing it for free somewhere else, something far easier for people to do than illegally distributing a DLC, for example. So an almost necessary subsequent step of a company selling paid mods (if it ever makes serious revenue) is also putting in place resources and a protocol towards policing the whole public internet where the mods may be distributed, like they already do for piracy. If they do this, the inordinate amount of control they already claim but fail to enforce over the content of mods could then be applied anywhere.

Paradox Interactive, for example, forbids modders accepting donations, forbids using or sharing any kind of license for their work or portions of it (such as music), and forbids distributing the mod outside their approved services, but are barely willing to enforce this even within their own services while there isn't any money in it (I've personally broken the license and distribution rules for years now with no problem). They even for many years forbade modders from using an external public forum to discuss and develop their mod in, as if they have any control or legal basis for that. If there were money in it, then any hypothetical company could get away with enforcing whatever silly or even illegal rules they want by throwing C&Ds around on third party distributors. The companies already often claim that they own the copyright on any mods created entirely, they could shut mods down for whatever reason they like if they feel it's impinging on profits (real or imagined).

Just an additional point for why paid mods may introduce unpleasantness.

[Putnam]

That's all about free mods already, though? Paid mods don't add much nastiness on top of the nastiness that exists there.