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[Bauglir]

Look, if SkyUI were not free, Bethesda and Valve would never have gotten the money for Dawnguard and Dragonborn from me. I simply would never have gotten engaged enough to care. Anecdotes aren't data, etc, etc, but there it is.

EDIT: There's no obligation to supply nice things for free. But that doesn't mean it's not a good thing.

[Sheb]

Does Bethesda/Valve also take 75% of the "pay as much as you want" money?

[10ebbor10]

I think the maker has said that, if it wasn't for the fact that he could get paid, tge update wasn't going to happen anyway, and that any core changes would be transported back to the original version.

Does Bethesda/Valve also take 75% of the "pay as much as you want" money?

I see no reason why they wouldn't.

[Bauglir]

Yes, yes, yes, we all know that SkyUI wouldn't have received another update if it remained free. At the same time, if it had never been free from its inception, as we can expect future mods of the same kind to be, we'd have a serious problem on our hands. This is the point that remains unaddressed.

[Putnam]

Does Bethesda/Valve also take 75% of the "pay as much as you want" money?

Bethesda/Valve always takes 75% of any money spent on mods, at this point.

[Sheb]

I guess the only thing I'm afraid is that now that Vavle/Bethesda makes so much out of mods, they'll try to attempt on other mod platform...

[10ebbor10]

Yes, yes, yes, we all know that SkyUI wouldn't have received another update if it remained free. At the same time, if it had never been free from its inception, as we can expect future mods of the same kind to be, we'd have a serious problem on our hands. This is the point that remains unaddressed.

Has SkyUI  been paid from it's inception, it wouldn't have nearly as much free mods being based on it, and a free alternative would have been created instead.

[Putnam]

And then nobody would use the paid version. Nobody wins!

[Leyic]

There's a reason why "power corrupts" is a famous saying, because it fucking does do that.

That's "absolute power corrupts absolutely". A world with no power at all would also be pretty bleak. For example, a world where modders have no power over their mods because society dictates what they must do with them, or a world where you have no power to stop someone from modding your public bench into a !!bench!!.

I guess the only thing I'm afraid is that now that Vavle/Bethesda makes so much out of mods, they'll try to attempt on other mod platform...

Valve is leaving it to publishers to decide if they want in on this scheme. One of the Space/Medieval Engineers devs already tweeted their interest, while Paradox reiterated that they won't allow the monetization of their games' mods by any means.

And then nobody would use the paid version. Nobody wins!

Rather, the dev either folds or lowers the price to a more reasonable point, while competition and its affect on the market works as expected.

[da_nang]

The majority of gamers appear to realize this, not wanting to destroy the good thing we have now with modding in favor or monetization overruled by corporate benefactors. However there are people in favor of these priced mods. Typically their argument is based upon the notion that content creators should be paid for their work, or that money will incentivize more or higher-quality mods.

We need to make it clear, if we want to persuade the opposition, that this isn't our rhetoric. We're not anti-content creators, we're simply pro-social community. Though the two mindsets can oppose each other in specific situations, they are not innate opposites.

Sorry if that seems obvious. I'm not trying to waste anyone's time, but I feel it's an important distinction to make. I've been arguing with these people for the last 2-3 day and the most common thing they argue is that we're being "selfish" or apathetic towards mod-makers. This isn't true, we simply believe in another ideal more -- one that has patently served us better than a modding scene influenced by corporate interests.

If we can convince more people to our side that gives us a better chance of fighting this. Careful arguments and language use (priced mods = microtransactions or unofficial DLC) may be a way to better accomplish that.

Pasting this because I really think it's a fair point that I too share.

[Andres]

There's a reason why "power corrupts" is a famous saying, because it fucking does do that.

That's "absolute power corrupts absolutely". A world with no power at all would also be pretty bleak. For example, a world where modders have no power over their mods because society dictates what they must do with them, or a world where you have no power to stop someone from modding your public bench into a !!bench!!.

The full quote is: "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." The second part uses the first as a basis for its thesis, also providing a logical conclusion to the first part.

[wierd]

andres is correct, that is the full saying.

--- back on topic.

It is also important to address that the modding community existed before zenimax purchased bethsoft, and that from its initial inception, bethsoft has previously held the (even publicly stated, but the old forums are no longer online to link to) position that community created content was intended to be free, and that they had no intention to monetize.

That is why the community has evolved/developed the way it has.

This action is literally like pulling the foundation out from under a building, and expecting there to be no consequences or collateral damage.

To tie into the "power corrupts" line, there's the "money is power" statement as well. As Bethsoft has grown, and especially after they were purchased by zenimax, they have grown more and more hostile to the modding community, ultimately culminating in this latest manouver. Most modders, i feel, have been blind to this, choosing not to see it for obvious reasons. The smashed up furniture however is making it impossible to ignore the elephant in the room now.  Zenimax/Bethesda are now fully invested in corporate "for profit only, and above all else, increase profits" ideology, and resent the free modding community they initially sired and supported, and now see its only value in terms of immediate dollars and cents.

I might see if I can cite the above with wayback machine, but the question of paid mods was aired waaaaaay back in the early morrowind days, and was struck down from above, citing that it would cause an intellectual policy nightmare.


edit-- no, the wayback machine does not have the old forums archived. Oceana has always been at war with east asia.

[Blaze]

There has to be money in it before it corrupts isn't there? This, in addition to being a PR nightmare, has garnered few sales. And all those sales will come at the cost of future sales. Consumers will be voting with their wallets and reviews.

If Bethesda wants to shoot itself in the foot, then they're welcome to do it. Let it be a precedent for any other companies thinking of adding paid mods. It's sad that the modding community takes a hit, but it's better that it shows that now rather than later.

[Sergarr]

There has to be money in it before it corrupts isn't there? This, in addition to being a PR nightmare, has garnered few sales. And all those sales will come at the cost of future sales. Consumers will be voting with their wallets and reviews.

If Bethesda wants to shoot itself in the foot, then they're welcome to do it. Let it be a precedent for any other companies thinking of adding paid mods. It's sad that the modding community takes a hit, but it's better that it shows that now rather than later.

You underestimate the brutal efficiency of modern company's PR. They've managed to sell things with shit like Day 1 DLC on disk and constant online DRM and they haven't tanked in sales at all.

Voting with a vallet doesn't work when 90% of vallets are attached to highly manipulable humans who will buy things based on "hype" and "well the reviews said it was the best thing since sliced bread even though they've been obviously bought to give it a good review".

[wierd]

(joke: what do people who park cars have to do with this, and why do I need to vote with one? )