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[Sergarr]

It should be really obvious.

Hint: you don't need everyone paying money for using something to make it sustainable - you just need someone providing the financing.

If I'm asking about it, then it isn't as obvious as you'd like to believe. I seriously doubt your suggesting that the government should buy ValveThesda* in order to subsidize modders, so what's your point?

Hint: check the DF payment scheme.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[Putnam]

Drama and legal clusterfucks.

[Sergarr]

Far fewer games can survive on donations than on a sale model. It is much less reliable.

I don't see why modders shouldn't be able to choose which model they use like game creators can.

Because modders are not game creators and should not be expected to be on equal level with them.

Modders do not enjoy the ability to monetize everything. Instead they have the ability to join efforts of many people without months of legal hassling and bickering.

[Flying Dice]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/gabe-newell-says-valve-will-dump-paid-mods-if-they/1100-6426893/

Cautious optimism here, but I'm glad to hear that Gabe at least seems to have the best intentions at heart. Though, that only makes me wonder who instigated this whole ordeal in the first place, since it appears he was quite clueless of the greater implications this would cause; as if he wasn't given the whole picture.

This is in line with what I got out of his responses in the AMA. From the sound of things it was some shithead below him with a bright idea and not much in the way of org or planning skills.

Far fewer games can survive on donations than on a sale model. It is much less reliable.

I don't see why modders shouldn't be able to choose which model they use like game creators can.

THE. SIMS. 2.

Nothing more needs to be said about the relative merits of free/donation mod communities versus ones with pay gates.

[Leyic]

Because modders are not game creators and should not be expected to be on equal level with them.

Modders do not enjoy the ability to monetize everything. Instead they have the ability to join efforts of many people without months of legal hassling and bickering.

Eh? Nehirim is pretty much a separate game built on the "Oblivion engine". Falskaar and Wyrmstooth have been described as "DLC quality", and few mind paying for actual DLC like Dragonborn.

Why should it even matter if what's created isn't a game? Do modellers, texture artists, folly engineers, and voice actors not deserve pay? They're only making content and not programming a game, after all.

[Flying Dice]

Because modders are not game creators and should not be expected to be on equal level with them.

Modders do not enjoy the ability to monetize everything. Instead they have the ability to join efforts of many people without months of legal hassling and bickering.

Eh? Nehirim is pretty much a separate game built on the "Oblivion engine". Falskaar and Wyrmstooth have been described as "DLC quality", and few mind paying for actual DLC like Dragonborn.

Why should it even matter if what's created isn't a game? Do modellers, texture artists, folly engineers, and voice actors not deserve pay? They're only making content and not programming a game, after all.

If their motive is personal financial gain rather than artistic satisfaction or non-capitalist gain, they should probably be looking for jobs in the sector instead of demanding that people pay for their hobby.

[Sergarr]

Because modders are not game creators and should not be expected to be on equal level with them.

Modders do not enjoy the ability to monetize everything. Instead they have the ability to join efforts of many people without months of legal hassling and bickering.

Eh? Nehirim is pretty much a separate game built on the "Oblivion engine". Falskaar and Wyrmstooth have been described as "DLC quality", and few mind paying for actual DLC like Dragonborn.

Why should it even matter if what's created isn't a game? Do modellers, texture artists, folly engineers, and voice actors not deserve pay? They're only making content and not programming a game, after all.

You're acting like getting paid is always good. It's not. Power (and money) corrupts and destroys.

Being a modder a week ago was different from being a game creator. Less money, but more creative freedom with other people's work. Now they're going to become the same. The world will be lessened, and all because some people want to "help" other people, even if these people said multiple times that this "help" will destroy their world.

[Bohandas]

Money is the devil's shit

[Blaze]

I must disagree, modders are content creators, and as such are free to do what they wish with their content; so long as they don't breach any legal conditions.

However, as they are entering the market, they still have to contend with the market conditions. There's a hostility I see which is entirely unnecessary. If you disagree with them, or find that the mod is not worth the price they ask, then simply don't buy the mod. In short, vote with your wallet.

Some people are saying that the modding community will be ruined by the advent of paid mods; too that end I saw "maybe it will, maybe it won't". I say a community that is "ruined" by temptation of power and/or money is a community that was on its way to destruction anyway.

[Leyic]

If their motive is personal financial gain rather than artistic satisfaction or non-capitalist gain, they should probably be looking for jobs in the sector instead of demanding that people pay for their hobby.

Right, a hobby and a business are two separate things. But just as there's room for hobbyist game devs and pro game devs, there's also room for both kinds of modders (i.e. third-party expansions in the '90s). The problem is what Valve did was take a bunch of hobbyist modders and toss them into the professional crowd with next to no support whatsoever, then opened the flood gates and stepped back to let anarchy reign.

In all seriousness, if the Nehirim team decided to charge for their next Skyrim TC (with Bethesda's permission), does anyone think we'd really be seeing as much dissent as we are now? It's hard to argue that their work isn't professional-grade, and a team that's been together that long usually has the structure and wisdom necessary to operate as a business. And should the trend have started with a single mod, there would've been more time to work out answers to the legal and ethical complications.

[Sergarr]

I say a community that is "ruined" by temptation of power and/or money is a community that was on its way to destruction anyway.

That's every human community ever.

Every single human community can be ruined by temptation of power and/or money!

There's a reason why "power corrupts" is a famous saying, because it fucking does do that.

[AlleeCat]

In all seriousness, if the Nehirim team decided to charge for their next Skyrim TC (with Bethesda's permission), does anyone think we'd really be seeing as much dissent as we are now? It's hard to argue that their work isn't professional-grade, and a team that's been together that long usually has the structure and wisdom necessary to operate as a business. And should the trend have started with a single mod, there would've been more time to work out answers to the legal and ethical complications.

I could get behind that. I would pay for that, in fact. What I refuse to pay for are UI tweaks and single weapons/armor sets. I refuse to pay for them in any other game that has them, why would I start now?

[10ebbor10]

In all seriousness, if the Nehirim team decided to charge for their next Skyrim TC (with Bethesda's permission), does anyone think we'd really be seeing as much dissent as we are now? It's hard to argue that their work isn't professional-grade, and a team that's been together that long usually has the structure and wisdom necessary to operate as a business. And should the trend have started with a single mod, there would've been more time to work out answers to the legal and ethical complications.

I could get behind that. I would pay for that, in fact. What I refuse to pay for are UI tweaks and single weapons/armor sets. I refuse to pay for them in any other game that has them, why would I start now?

You don't have to, if you don't want too.

[Putnam]

Yes, let's just completely ignore the fact that most people would consider said mod to be essential to playing on the PC version.