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Author Topic: Iron armor vs steel  (Read 8655 times)

Insert_Gnome_Here

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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2015, 10:37:21 am »

How good are bone vs leather and leggings vs greaves?
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Quote from: Max™ on December 06, 2015, 04:09:21 am
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TruePikachu

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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2015, 05:49:39 pm »

How good are bone vs leather and leggings vs greaves?
Greaves are twice as expensive as leggings, but convey more protection and need to be made of either metal or bone. They also don't melt down to more than was used to make them...
...which just gave me an idea to use DFHack's automelt stockpiles to melt down leggings which are being produced through workflow...automated metal generation.

Leather gives very little protection, while bone has a limited number of applications.
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oasis789

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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2015, 01:17:46 am »

Using wood/leather shields is a good idea, as they are lighter and functionally identical to metal shields.

Why is this? Wouldn't bashing with metal be better?
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Insert_Gnome_Here

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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2015, 02:40:18 am »

Bashing is affected by metal, but if you wanted stuff for bashing, I would invest in a nice set of silver hammers.
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Quote from: Max™ on December 06, 2015, 04:09:21 am
Also, if you ever figure out why poets/bards/dancers just randomly start butchering people/getting butchered, please don't fix it, I love never knowing when a dance party will turn into a slaughter.

Aslandus

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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2015, 10:20:27 pm »

The weight isn't worth the bashing power, a slow dwarf is more likely to die so you're better off giving them a light shield since it works just as well for the intended use of protecting their dwarven body without weighing them down...

utunnels

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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2015, 11:29:47 pm »

Does material even affect bash?
I mean, I've tested it in arena mode, if a wood shield can't crack a certain skull, nor can a steel shield do any better.
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Borge

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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2015, 12:21:01 am »

Does material even affect bash?
I mean, I've tested it in arena mode, if a wood shield can't crack a certain skull, nor can a steel shield do any better.

Material most certainly affects bash. My legendary shield user who is one handed and unbelievably strong explodes heads and cracks bones with every bash using her steel shield. Tested leather/wood and only bruises.
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utunnels

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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2015, 12:26:16 am »

Hmm, strange. Maybe those giant creatures have supper strong skull.
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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2015, 12:40:32 am »

The weight isn't worth the bashing power, a slow dwarf is more likely to die so you're better off giving them a light shield since it works just as well for the intended use of protecting their dwarven body without weighing them down...


The problems is that I need to manually create a uniform which is kind of annoying.
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Aslandus

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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2015, 09:16:37 am »

The weight isn't worth the bashing power, a slow dwarf is more likely to die so you're better off giving them a light shield since it works just as well for the intended use of protecting their dwarven body without weighing them down...


The problems is that I need to manually create a uniform which is kind of annoying.
I always make custom uniforms because I think the defaults are terrible, but to each his own I suppose...

Montieth

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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2015, 11:16:33 am »

Willow shields are good. Feather Wood shields are better.
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Detharon

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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2015, 12:19:01 pm »

Based on the numbers given in the arena for speed, as well as my experience from adventure mode, a full suit (helm, breastplate, mail shirt, greaves, gauntlets and high boots) of steel or iron armor does not encumber a dwarf at all.

This is only true for dwarves that aren't weak. I have a dwarf that is described as "very weak", his strength value in Therapist is 519/1731 and he's quite slow even though he's only wearing a bronze mail shirt, wooden shield and a bronze crossbow. At the same time, I have two dwarves that are "very strong" and they're running around in steel set, with breastplate and mail shirt, and their speed is normal. They're all dabbling armor users.
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Pirate Bob

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Re: Iron armor vs steel
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2015, 01:24:32 pm »

Based on the numbers given in the arena for speed, as well as my experience from adventure mode, a full suit (helm, breastplate, mail shirt, greaves, gauntlets and high boots) of steel or iron armor does not encumber a dwarf at all.

This is only true for dwarves that aren't weak. I have a dwarf that is described as "very weak", his strength value in Therapist is 519/1731 and he's quite slow even though he's only wearing a bronze mail shirt, wooden shield and a bronze crossbow. At the same time, I have two dwarves that are "very strong" and they're running around in steel set, with breastplate and mail shirt, and their speed is normal. They're all dabbling armor users.
Sorry, clearly my previous post was too long, and you didn't read it.  Here's the relevant bits:
...
The only way you would have an issue is if you use copper/bronze armor, or with marksdwarves, as bolts are stupidly heavy.
...
The only potential issue is that both fortress and arena-created dwarves have some variation in size (and hence carrying capacity), but assuming you train your dwarves at all they will be above average size.
Since you are doing both of these things, this is why you are having a problem.  Also being very weak (weak = small size) could be enough to slow down a dwarf somewhat using the steel armor I described, but melee military training will build up size/strength up to normal levels within a few months. 

I do not recommend full steel for marksdwarves, as combined with their bolts this is too much weight.  I would give them a steel helm, boots, and gauntlets (as these are all light), leather armor and bone greaves.  Leather and bone armor won't protect against metal weapons, but will do something against animals, punches, etc.  Also, armor doesn't wear out, so then you don't have to make clothes for these dwarves.  I tend to recruit all my civilian dwarves as marksdwarves, and assign them bone helm, gauntlets and greaves, leather armor and boots (until metal becomes available), as this armor is better than nothing, and then I don't have to deal with worn out clothes. 

Armor user decreases the weight of worn armor linearly with skill level, with full weight at dabbling and zero weight at legendary.  However by the time a dwarf gets to legendary armor user they will also have incredible size and strength due to training, so wouldn't be impaired by armor weight anyway.  Armor user is really only meaningful in adventure mode, where you are wearing armor and carrying tons of stuff around, or if perhaps you want your legendary military dwarves to haul rocks for some reason...

« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 01:26:35 pm by Pirate Bob »
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