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[Devastator]

Blue, you have PM.

[DuncanFrost]

o_o I don't understand what he's talking about. Unless he really is making a dwarf powered calculator   :eek:

[w]

Any updates on this project?

I am waiting with bated breath!

[Lord Blue]

quote:Originally posted by w:
<STRONG>Any updates on this project?

I am waiting with bated breath!</STRONG>

I'm making my own self-sufficiant fortress for use in other projects, as well as this one. I've decided to use a bianary display, and I may need to wait for a few updates before this will happen...

[ghor]

Two months ago or so I had the same idea (building a binary calculator), but I came to the conclusion that it is impossible to do in regard to how flows and levers with multiple floodgates work at the moment.

But I'd love to be proven wrong!

[Gigalith]

Last night, I was pondering how to create a half-adder using floodgates. I came up with this:

code:

  
####W#####
####_#####
#_______##
#_#####_##
#A####___#
#B####a#b#
#_####___#
#____##_##
####_#___#
####_#A#B#
####_#___#
####1##2##

W is your source of fluid. The As and Bs are floodgates, connected to levers A and B respectively. The ones in lower case start out open. 1 is the first bit of the result, 2 is the second.

This is assuming of course, that fluid does NOT set off pressure traps. If it does, then it will be possible to stuff a insane number of logic gates into a tiny space. If it doesn't, you will go insane trying to do multi-bit addition, let alone higher functions like division.

[ghor]

The problem is that you can't have some floodgates open and some closed and expect them all to neatly toggle between open and closed when you pull the lever. Unfortunately, they synchronize.

[Zengief]

Forget this flood gate balogna.  I want to see a calcualtor made with lever trapped supports and collapsing rooms.

[Gigalith]

Well then, connect the a/b gates to their own levers, a and b. Then make sure that they are the opposite of their uppercase counterparts. It won't be quite as automatic, but it will still work.

[Zengief]

if you can connect levers to other levers, it might work then.

[ctrlfrk]

Squish.

code:

##W###
#____#
#A#AB#
#B#ba#
#_#__#
#1##2#

Or for sideways action.

code:

##W##
##__#
#_AB#
1Bba#
##__2
#####

First is better though for cascading.

code:

##W###  GECA
#____# +HFDB
#A#AB# -----
#B#ba# VUTSR
#_#__2R
#1####
#____#
#C#CD#
#D#dc#
#_#__2S
#1####
#____#
#E#EF#
#F#fe#
#_#__2T
#1####
#____#
#G#GH#
#H#hg#
#_#__2U
#1####
 V

[ December 06, 2006: Message edited by: ctrlfrk ]

[Gigalith]

The cascade won't work. If either A or B is closed the water supply for lower levels will be cut off. Still, nice job on compressing it.

EDIT: This idea just came to me. An elephant-powered calculator.

Here's an elephant-powered AND gate:

code:

######
#!#!b#
#A#a.#
#B#..#
#1#0##
#^#^##
#.#.##
....##
######

In this example, !s are cages with (untamed) elephants inside them, which are connected to a (far-off) lever. 0 and 1 are pressure plates which act as output. The ^ is a cage trap so you can recycle your elephants.

You can use other things instead of elephants, but groundhog-and-goblin-POW-powered calcuator just doesn't have the same ring to it.

[ December 06, 2006: Message edited by: Gigalith ]

[ December 06, 2006: Message edited by: Gigalith ]

[Lord Blue]

quote:Originally posted by Gigalith:
<STRONG>Last night, I was pondering how to create a half-adder using floodgates. I came up with this:

code:

  
####W#####
####_#####
#_______##
#_#####_##
#A####___#
#B####a#b#
#_####___#
#____##_##
####_#___#
####_#A#B#
####_#___#
####1##2##

W is your source of fluid. The As and Bs are floodgates, connected to levers A and B respectively. The ones in lower case start out open. 1 is the first bit of the result, 2 is the second.

This is assuming of course, that fluid does NOT set off pressure traps. If it does, then it will be possible to stuff a insane number of logic gates into a tiny space. If it doesn't, you will go insane trying to do multi-bit addition, let alone higher functions like division.</STRONG>

I need you to follow me around all day. This has been my idea from the start, thank you for... synthesizing (?) my idea. I can never fully put my ideas into understandable terms, thank you.

[Gakidou]

quote:Originally posted by Gigalith:
<STRONG>The cascade won't work. If either A or B is closed the water supply for lower levels will be cut off. Still, nice job on compressing it.

EDIT: This idea just came to me. An elephant-powered calculator.

Here's an elephant-powered AND gate:

code:

######
#!#!b#
#A#a.#
#B#..#
#1#0##
#^#^##
#.#.##
....##
######

In this example, !s are cages with (untamed) elephants inside them, which are connected to a (far-off) lever. 0 and 1 are pressure plates which act as output. The ^ is a cage trap so you can recycle your elephants.

You can use other things instead of elephants, but groundhog-and-goblin-POW-powered calcuator just doesn't have the same ring to it.

[ December 06, 2006: Message edited by: Gigalith ]

[ December 06, 2006: Message edited by: Gigalith ]</STRONG>

I love it. I take it the ABab are doors linked to levers?

The only thing worrying about this design is that the animal recapture isn't safe. It is one thing to have some bugs in your system, but when those bugs are antmen triggering your cage trap and allowing the released elephants to run wild in your fortress, well...

[w]

quote:Originally posted by Gigalith:
<STRONG>This idea just came to me. An elephant-powered calculator.

Here's an elephant-powered AND gate:

code:

######
#!#!b#
#A#a.#
#B#..#
#1#0##
#^#^##
#.#.##
....##
######

In this example, !s are cages with (untamed) elephants inside them, which are connected to a (far-off) lever. 0 and 1 are pressure plates which act as output. The ^ is a cage trap so you can recycle your elephants.</STRONG>

Maybe I'm misunderstanding.  But I think that there are actually serious problems with this scheme.

It seems to give the results:

A and B = 1 and 0
A and (not B) = 0
(not A) and B = 0
(not A) and (not B) = (no result)

There are two problems here:

First of all, "(no result)".  This is actually a major issue, believe it or not.  You can't simply state that (no result) is equivalent to the zero pressure plate, because you cannot categorically state that just because no result has occurred, no result will occur.  The elephants could just be taking their sweet time, and there is no finite amount of time within which you can guarantee they will get around to the plate.

So, unless you are preassuming knowledge to the answer of "(not A) and (not B)", this machine will never allow the dwarves to figure out that question.

Second of all, the fact that "A and B" triggers both the 0 and the 1 pressure plate.  This is an issue for more or less the same reason that (no result) is an issue: Just because the zero plate has been triggered, and the one plate has not been triggered, you cannot definitively state that the one plate will not be triggered.  Within any timeframe.

So, similarly to "(not A) and (not B)", the dwarves will never be able to know the answers to "A and (not B)" and "(not A) and B".

The only question that your machine can definitively answer is "A and B", and it's not even guaranteed to do that in any finite amount of time.

I'm sorry if it's seeming like I'm being a stickler, or a jerk, or whatever -- I admit I'm being the former, but I don't mean to be the latter -- I just am genuinely enjoying this thread, and would like to see it really solved.

Edit: Did this instead of this.

[ December 07, 2006: Message edited by: w ]

[ December 07, 2006: Message edited by: w ]