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[10ebbor10]

((Plus 1/each maintenance on corvettes.))

((Whoops. Well then. Colony turn 3.))

[Playergamer]

((Yeah. I'm slightly annoyed that my different proposal got only half worked in. I proposed we drop a corvette and invest 2 credits in hydroponics, and Ghaz only added in the hydroponics. Ah well, c'est la vie.))

[Rolepgeek]

(trade goods double tax income, don't forget, so if we use it, we can still get 6 credits, and thus colony frigate)

[10ebbor10]

(trade goods double tax income, don't forget, so if we use it, we can still get 6 credits, and thus colony frigate)

((Trade goods have to originate from another planet.))

[Ardas]

"Interesting proposed constitution, but I disagree on several points."

Spoiler: Commented Proposal for Constitution of Terran Republic (click to show/hide)

Constitution of the Terran Federation
Title I: Fundamental Principles and Organization

Article I - The Terran Republic is a federation integrated by the irrevocable union between Terra and and its colonies, characterized by:
II - singular right to sovereign rule and representation of the human species;
III - universal citizenship;
§ citizenship in the Terran Federation is both compulsory and assumed for all humans. Rebels, defectors, and traitors would still count as citizens? I fail to see this as beneficial.
IV - cultural pluralism;
V - humanity's manifest destiny among the stars.

Article II - The Terran Republic features two powers, distinct by their nature:
I - The Terran Senate, led by a President and sovereign over Earth and all its colonies.
II - The Colonial Governments, led by semi-autonomous governors, sovereign over those Terran colonies they represent and subsidiary in relation to the Terran Senate.

Article III - Only the Terran Senate, as the Republic's sovereign body, may modify the Constitution, for as long as the Terran Senate exists as such, orienting themselves by the following principles:
I - equality.
II - dignity.
III - free-initiative.
IV - civil liberty.
Pretty words, yet meaningless.

Article IV - The Governors of Terran Republic's colonial members are elected from among existing Senators to preside over the planet, legislatively and executively, for life. The elections are held among the citizens of the planet in question.
§ The Senate may revoke governorship as required, in observance of Article III.
§2 The planetary elections are subject to review by the Senate in case of gross misconduct.

Article V - The President of the Senate and subsequently of the Republic is elected by simple majority of the Senate.
§ For the vote to be valid, at least 66% of the active Governors must be present.
What does this president do?

Article VI - The Terran Navy is the Terran Republic's sole military branch allowed ownership and use of vehicles capable of space travel.
§1 The Consul is the supreme commander of the Terran Navy.
§2 A Grand Admiral may be appointed or dispensed by the Consul at any moment.
§3 There can be no more than one Grand Admiral in activity at a time. I disagree. Assigning the entire navy to a single person courts disaster.
§4 The Grand Admiral is placed above all personnel in the Terran Navy in hierarchy, but never above the supreme commander.

Article - VII The Terran Army is the Terran Republic's sole military branch allowed to operate within a planet's orbit without the President's express authorization.
§1 The President is the supreme commander of the Terran Army.
§2 A Grand Marshal may be appointed or dispensed by the Terran Solon at any moment.
§3 There can be no more than one Grand Marshal in activity at a time.
§4 The Grand Marshal is placed above all personnel in the Terran Army in hierarchy, but never above the supreme commander.
It would be more sensible to have our grand admirals in control over their own marines.

Article VIII Each Colonial Government is responsible for its own fiscal affairs and transfers of tax revenues to Earth at a rate set by the Terran Senate.
§ Credit revenue is registered on January 29th of each year, Earth calendar, no exceptions.

Article IX Colonial Governors are the ultimate legislative and executive authority in their respective planets, sovereignty of the Terran Senate observed.

 "I briefly mention this in my commented constitution draft. It bears discussion: a single grand admiral is a bad idea. I would see three with equivalent forces, each controlling their own ground personnel and atmospheric craft. Colonial governors should be allowed command of their own, strictly limited, fleet garrisons, and as many land garrisons as they feel necessary."

"I see no problem with the position of a Grand Admiral, as its serves no other purpose than the chief of staff - after all, the overview and ultimate authority will rest with the President.
And yes, the powers and nature of a president's office were intentionally left vague to generate discussion and see what is a workable and acceptable position.
As for your comments on citizenship - its universal nature will mean that the troublemakers that were mentioned will not be excluded from the full extent of the law and duties that will rest on all citizens. If you are worried about them abusing the privileges of citizenship, rest assured that at present similar situation happens on Earth - no matter the circumstances, a person is always classified as being of one nationality or citizenship or the other and with that, the duty of prosecuting them rests with their own national government. The same situation applies here, where the Republic will take up the responsibility of law enforcement over its own citizens.
Last but not least, I do not think that enshrining civil and personal rights in the constitution is a waste. Its worthwhile to remember the principles on which this governing body will rest."

[Ghazkull]

((not any more no ebbor.))

[10ebbor10]

Having been provided with new information, I believe that I have yet another proposal. Industrial efforts on Earth, have, understandably, given recent history, been focused to much on agricultural supplies. If we're to expand the Mandate, we need to significantly increase Industrial Production.

Spoiler: The Great Leap (click to show/hide)

Switch 3 more farmers to industry. Thus, final result, 3 farmers, 4 industry.

[Rolepgeek]

((Ghazkull, can we at least know who's who? I still don't know which Senator Ardas is.

FAKEDIT: Nor Ebbor, as it turns out, because you people haven't been saying which Senator you are in your posts. >.>))

Senator Lydia Akamine surveyed the room again, having sat down again when others took the floor, and listening to the debate after the votes had been cast.

"Fellow Senators, these are all worthy ideas. However, like most ideas, they could use refinement. I have several addenda and revisions to suggest for all of these proposals. First, Senator [?]'s plan for a Constitution. There are several features I find wanting, and several I find needless. I will be sending a draft of my views and suggestions to your tablets shortly. Some of you may find my disputes to be merely semantic in origin, but if they are, then I must ask; is a document as important as this not important enough to warrant such discretion? It will be parsed, word by word, in future years, and we must plan for such."

As she speaks, she taps something on her own tablet, and a notification appears on each of the other Senators'.

Spoiler: Terran Republic Constitution Revisions (click to show/hide)

Constitution of the Terran Federation
Title I: Fundamental Principles and Organization

Article I - The Terran Republic is a federation integrated by the irrevocable union between Terra and and its colonies, characterized by:
II - singular right to sovereign rule and representation of the human species; ~ This simultaneously seems to contradict and reinforce a later article concerning tyranny
III - universal citizenship;
§ citizenship in the Terran Federation is both compulsory and assumed for all humans.
IV - cultural pluralism;
V - humanity's manifest destiny among the stars. ~ Of everything within this document, this is perhaps the most worrying article. It gives a legal grounds for warmongers to push for violence with alien species we may come into contact with, while if there are none it is entirely unnecessary.
~ Additionally, it seems to me that it could stand to speak of the the cooperation with, not simply the union and rule over, it's colonies.

Article II - The Terran Republic features two powers, distinct by their nature:
I - The Terran Senate, led by a President and sovereign over Earth and all its colonies.
II - The Colonial Governments, led by semi-autonomous governors, sovereign over those Terran colonies they represent and subsidiary in relation to the Terran Senate. ~ it seems ill advised to follow in the model of old Imperialism, for we know exactly how well that went. I would advise instead following the model of the United States before it's despotic decline, lest we find ourselves with rebellion.

Article III - Only the Terran Senate, as the Republic's sovereign body, may modify the Constitution, for as long as the Terran Senate exists as such, orienting themselves by the following principles: ~ I would suggest making changes to the Constitution require a two-thirds majority vote.
I - equality.
II - dignity.
III - free-initiative.
IV - civil liberty.

Article IV - The Governors of Terran Republic's colonial members are elected from among existing Senators to preside over the planet, legislatively and executively, for life. The elections are held among the citizens of the planet in question.
§ The Senate may revoke governorship as required, in observance of Article III.
§2 The planetary elections are subject to review by the Senate in case of gross misconduct.

Article V - The President of the Senate and subsequently of the Republic is elected by simple majority of the Senate.
§ For the vote to be valid, at least 66% of the active Governors must be present.~ There really is no need for a President, nor do I enjoy the prospect of needing a mere 34% of the total body to elect such an individual

Article VI - The Terran Navy is the Terran Republic's sole military branch allowed ownership and use of vehicles capable of space travel.~ Such restriction seems both unnecessary and counter-productive to effective action; inter-department rivalry will always exist, if there are separate branches
§1 The Consul is the supreme commander of the Terran Navy. ~ How is the Consul meant to be appointed, and why would they be necessary?
§2 A Grand Admiral may be appointed or dispensed by the Consul at any moment.
§3 There can be no more than one Grand Admiral in activity at a time. ~ Then what is the point of their existence? They fulfill the exact same role as the Consul, save for the ability to be forced to step down more easily.
§4 The Grand Admiral is placed above all personnel in the Terran Navy in hierarchy, but never above the supreme commander.

Article - VII The Terran Army is the Terran Republic's sole military branch allowed to operate within a planet's orbit without the President's express authorization. ~ see above for my thoughts
§1 The President is the supreme commander of the Terran Army. ~ This seems a monumentally bad idea. A simple majority vote to elect someone to be in charge of every military unit. That asks for trouble...
§2 A Grand Marshal may be appointed or dispensed by the Terran Solon at any moment. ~ What is a Solon?
§3 There can be no more than one Grand Marshal in activity at a time. ~ Again, see above.
§4 The Grand Marshal is placed above all personnel in the Terran Army in hierarchy, but never above the supreme commander.

Article VIII Each Colonial Government is responsible for its own fiscal affairs and transfers of tax revenues to Earth at a rate set by the Terran Senate.
§ Credit revenue is registered on January 29th of each year, Earth calendar, no exceptions. ~ there should be some exceptions made once true interstellar travel is had, and colonies are lightyears away.

Article IX Colonial Governors are the ultimate legislative and executive authority in their respective planets, sovereignty of the Terran Senate observed. ~ This asks for dictators unless we watch every colony. A poor choice. They should have their own independent Senates which we may override.

"That done, we are able to move on to Senator [??]'s proposals. The Taxation reform could stand to be far less severe on trade, and personally I feel that we could do with more investment in research. A Change of tax rates on trade to 40%, and on base income for colonies of 30%, at minimum, would be far more reasonable, I believe. I see little problem with the Monopoly, save that it could serve to have a better title, and that for worlds which require all population to be dedicated towards food production, such as fledgling colonies, an exception be made. Finally, I believe that in order to combat our growing population needs, we need to construct a colony ship, to bring settlers to Mars, and focus our citizenry on production to finance such an expedition. Over the next three years((is a year a turn?)), I propose the following plan."

Spoiler: Project Green Mars (click to show/hide)

Year One: [This Year]
Shift one (1) Population towards Production. Total of 5/2.
Use one (1) Trade Good to double the Tax Income of a unit of Population.
Year Two:
Shift two (2) Population towards Production. Total of 4/3.
Construct a Colony Ship, using a Food Population. Total of 3/3 +1
Use two (2) Trade Goods to double the Tax Income of two units of Population.
Year Three
Colonize Mars.
Construct two (2) Trade Fleets. Have one carry Food to Mars, and the other carry Food and a single Trade Good.
Use six (6) Trade Goods to double the Tax Income of six units of Population on Terra.
Use one (1) Trade Good to double the Tax Income of one unit of Population on Mars.
Extra Credits produced will be spent on Researching Hydroponic Farms.

[Ardas]

((sorry, the Solon and Consul are just alternative names for the post of president, I was just toying with the names.))

Senator DuGalle expected opposition to his constitutional proposal. After all, this was a document outlining the future for humanity, and everyone had t make sure that elements that went into it would not undermine or damage anyone.

"While both of the amended drafts raise reasonable points, I have to counter them with a single question - can this Senate act as an executive body? Can it make policy rulings and push in direct action when its required? Can we not recall the rule of committees in parliaments of 20th and 21st century, where legislation and decisions were bogged down in councils and brought misfortune where action was needed. Not to mention, appropriate oversight and decision making still remains within this chamber, but its inevitable that it has to be outsourced so that executive power is handled properly.
As for worries of tyranny, I say that the only ones worried about it are those that harbour either paranoia or thoughts of power for themselves.
Last but not least, I wondered if there was any call or opinion about the judicial powers of this Senate and whether a separate World Court would be needed. After all, one could consider this very chamber to be tyrannical for as long as constitution and separation of powers are not in place."

[Ghazkull]

((well folks?))

[Nirur Torir]

((You said that "the turn has not yet passed." I took that to mean that we were waiting on you.))

[Ghazkull]

((im waiting for you folks to come to a conclusion regarding the Constitution before i update...aka several proper proposals.

[Ardas]

((As Far as I'm concerned, my proposal has been submitted. People voted for it, but no one submitted a properly amended draft and the few annotated versions without any substitutions, which makes my proposal stay as it is.))

[Nirur Torir]

"Very well then. These are the Chinese proposed revisions to this Constitution. Most notably, the senate is led by an executor in times of crises, who rules only when we cannot reach a consensus or in a crisis, that colonial governments be allowed their own garrisons, and that we have multiple admirals, who command their own ground forces. Article III must include state the importance of Humanity's self-perpetuation. Article IV allows for a colonial populace to depose a governor. Article IX is new, and dis-allows governors from declaring independence."

Spoiler: (Obsolete, do not use) Proposal for Constitution of Terran Republic, Chinese Revision (click to show/hide)

Constitution of the Terran Federation
Title I: Fundamental Principles and Organization

Article I - The Terran Republic is a federation integrated by the irrevocable union between Terra and and its colonies, characterized by:
I - humanity's manifest destiny among the stars;
II - singular right to sovereign rule and representation of the human species;
III - universal citizenship;
IV - cultural pluralism.

Article II - The Terran Republic features two powers, distinct by their nature:
I - The Terran Senate, led by an executor, sovereign over Earth and all its colonies.
II - The Colonial Governments, led by semi-autonomous governors, sovereign over those Terran colonies they represent and subsidiary in relation to the Terran Senate.

Article III - Only the Terran Senate, as the Republic's sovereign body, may modify the Constitution, for as long as the Terran Senate exists as such, orienting themselves by the following principles:
I - humanity's survival and self-sovereignty.
II - equality.
III - dignity.
IV - free-initiative.
V- civil liberty.

Article IV - The Governors of Terran Republic's colonial members are elected from among existing Senators to preside over the planet, legislatively and executively, until voted out of office by a 51% majority.
I - The Senate may revoke governorship as required, in observance of Article III.
II - The planetary elections are subject to review by the Senate in case of gross misconduct.

Article V - The executor of the senate is elected by the senate, to lead in times of crisis.
I - Success requires a 51% majority vote. In the event this is not reached, the previous executor will reign until a re-election, taking place either the following year or after an emergency re-election. Should they be unavailable, no executor will head the senate.
II - The executor is re-elected on a four-year cycle.
III - A senator may call for an emergency re-election at any time. Should this receive the backing of three total senators, the re-election will proceed immediately.
IV - The executor may command the admirals or planetary governors as they see fit. Their actions are subject to review of the other senators. Should the senate find them be found their actions to not be in humanity's best interest, they are to be subjected to immediate termination.

Article VI - The Terran Navy is the Terran Republic's sole military branch.
I - Admirals are to lead their fleets and troops as commanded by the executor and senate.
  i - In times of crisis or senate indecisiveness, the executor may over-ride senatorial standing orders.
  ii - The senate is ultimately above the executor in the chain-of-command.
II - Planetary governors are allowed a garrison, subjected to limits imposed by the senate on a case-by-case basis.

Article VII - Each Colonial Government is responsible for its own fiscal affairs and transfers of tax revenues to Earth at a rate set by the Terran Senate.
I - Credit revenue is registered on January 29th of each year, Earth calendar

Article VIII - Colonial Governors are the ultimate legislative and executive authority in their respective planets, sovereignty of the Terran Senate observed.

Article IX - Any planet with a predominately human populace is part of the Terran Federation, and subject to all rights and responsibilities thereof.

[Ardas]

"The Chinese Amendments are broadly within the suggested framework of the Constitution, upholding the ideas of Terran supremacy and unity of all human worlds to be. I support this version. My sole  suggestion lies with the title of executor - Perhaps renaming the post to a Chairman or Director-General, or even Prime Minister would sound less menacing and dictatorial."