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[utunnels]

I know many people have tried to breed using the starting seven.
But I don't like the odds. Providing straight rate in vanilla DF, I probably need to retry several times.
So in oder to do that without modding and cheating(e.g., gaydar your citizens and kill all gays), how low should a safe POPULATION_CAP be?

[Klitri]

Not sure what you're trying to ask, to be honest.

Are you looking for higher odds or are you wondering what a low population_cap safe on your FPS is?

[utunnels]

Not sure what you're trying to ask, to be honest.

Are you looking for higher odds or are you wondering what a low population_cap safe on your FPS is?

I want to turn off migrants after a certain point, and let the rest of the fortress population to breed on their own.
In order to do that,  there must be at least 2 pairs of valid couple who can reproduct (not gays of course). But in me experience, the chance is very low with only the starting seven (must have correct orientation and age).

[Ianflow]

Edit the raws so that orientation is different if it's a problem. Hell even then you might still end up with straight dwarves who
a) are not well split in gender
b) none of them want to get married and have kids, but are fine to take lovers
c) are not the right corresponding ages (this could be remedied by making sure the history is a custom set number, say around 20-70)

Honestly you're better off modding because that'll be a less offensive, and more intelligent method.
In general with only 7 dwarves you're screwed due to statistics. 20% of a population, but each of these dwarves are generated if I remember right, giving them the same odds to be what is possible.
Just like even if you play the lottery millions of times, you may never, ever win. You might end up with all female dwarves who will only ever take lovers.

Honeymoon suites, modding, and accepting a migrant wave or two are your best bet
You'll still have to murder the dwarves who won't get married and have babies, but are straight.

EDIT: Also here is a non-modded solution
1 ) Make as many slabs as there are dwarves in your fort.
2 ) Make a tunnel to the magma sea.
3 ) Make a retracting bridge over it
4 ) Format a military squad (Let's name it No Babies), civilian clothing only
5 ) Now establish which dwarves are gay, which are bisexual, and which are straight
6 ) establish which of the straight and which of the bisexual will get married to the opposite gender
7 ) establish which of those who will get straight married will have babies
8 ) Put as many dwarves as necessary into the military squad
9 ) station them over the bridge
10 ) pull the lever (kronk)
11 ) engrave the slabs of the newly deceased
12 ) repeat as many times necessary
13 ) enjoy the handful of dwarves who will make babies

Don't forget to ensure no dwarf sees the deaths, put 2 locked doors on the way to the room, and unlock/lock as necessary

[Demonic Gophers]

...The first post explicitly ruled out modding and mass murder.  Suggesting modding or mass murder does not answer the question.


By default, each dwarf has a 75% chance of being willing to marry someone of the opposite sex.  So any potential couple has a 9/16 chance of actually getting married - call it 50% for simplicity.  You need about twice as many potential couples as you want actual couples.  The complicating factor is that your population won't divide smoothly into potential couples.  You can't count on getting a close balance between males and females; I've often found two thirds of my population one or the other.  You can't count on avoiding grudges, and you need dwarves to be within 10 years in age.  I don't know how the odds work out on any of these elements.

I'd probably start with a pop cap of 20 or so.  After the first two migrant waves, look at what you've got.  If you're happy with your supply of potential couples, set the pop cap below your current population.  If you don't have enough for one reason or another, set the cap to a little bit above your population to get one more wave and hope that does it.  Also, assign any potential couples you get to small shared bedrooms, to encourage them to spend time idling together.

[Merendel]

...The first post explicitly ruled out modding and mass murder.  Suggesting modding or mass murder does not answer the question.

I thought magma was the answer to every question :p

[Kishmond]

This is what I'm doing right now. I had 2 males and 5 females and both couples are married now. I did reduce the chance of homo- or asexual dwarves by a lot in the raws though. Even with all straight dwarves, however, a dwarfs personality may prevent him/her from getting married. My other male was completely disinterested in love (LOVE_PROPENSITY trait was 19/100) so I bumped it up in DFHack.

Without modding or hacks, yes it is possible but you may have to retry a few times. If you set

Code: [Select]

[POPULATION_CAP:7]
[STRICT_POPULATION_CAP:220]in d_init then you won't get migrants, even the hard coded ones. My second generation dwarves are just starting to grow up at this point but no second gen marriages yet. Be prepared for not much to happen for a while.

[Dunamisdeos]

This is what I'm doing right now. I had 2 males and 5 females and both couples are married now. I did reduce the chance of homo- or asexual dwarves by a lot in the raws though. Even with all straight dwarves, however, a dwarfs personality may prevent him/her from getting married. My other male was completely disinterested in love (LOVE_PROPENSITY trait was 19/100) so I bumped it up in DFHack.

Without modding or hacks, yes it is possible but you may have to retry a few times. If you set

Code: [Select]

[POPULATION_CAP:7]
[STRICT_POPULATION_CAP:220]in d_init then you won't get migrants, even the hard coded ones. My second generation dwarves are just starting to grow up at this point but no second gen marriages yet. Be prepared for not much to happen for a while.

Hang on, what's the DFhack for that? I didn't think we could do that.

[AceSV]

The other thing is that dwarves need to be within 10 years of each others' age to feel romance.  Dwarves have a natural life expectancy of 150 years or something, so if the game is picking their ages at random, there's something like a 12% chance of anyone being an age match for anyone else.  I'm pretty sure the game doesn't pick the ages completely at random, and natural deaths are something of a rarity anyways, but as previously discussed there's a a lot of other things going on, so if guessing you've got a 24% age window, you've got 50% to get the right gender, and the 50% personality chance.  So the chance of any two dwarves being compatible is more like 6%.  I forget how to actually calculate statistically probabilities in situations like this, but the chance of finding 2 breeding pairs of dwarves in your starting 7 is single digits, if any digits. 

[utunnels]

Yeah, I suppose the math should be hard to do because there're not enough informations.

...
a) are not well split in gender
b) none of them want to get married and have kids, but are fine to take lovers
c) are not the right corresponding ages (this could be remedied by making sure the history is a custom set number, say around 20-70)
...

Atir Kilrudvucar (m) will marry females
Litast Mosusoddom (m) will marry females
Reg Cattenam (m) will marry males and will marry females
Kib Athelkib (f) likes males
Onol Vabokesdor (m) likes females
Ushat Shelretthikut (f) will marry males
Solon Dodokzuglar (f) will marry males


These are gaydar results of my current fort. If we ignore age, which of them can marry and have children?

Edit*

Are Kib and Onol valid candidates? And Reg?

[vjmdhzgr]

Yeah, I suppose the math should be hard to do because there're not enough informations.

...
a) are not well split in gender
b) none of them want to get married and have kids, but are fine to take lovers
c) are not the right corresponding ages (this could be remedied by making sure the history is a custom set number, say around 20-70)
...

Atir Kilrudvucar (m) will marry females
Litast Mosusoddom (m) will marry females
Reg Cattenam (m) will marry males and will marry females
Kib Athelkib (f) likes males
Onol Vabokesdor (m) likes females
Ushat Shelretthikut (f) will marry males
Solon Dodokzuglar (f) will marry males


These are gaydar results of my current fort. If we ignore age, which of them can marry and have children?

Edit*

Are Kib and Onol valid candidates? And Reg?

Reg is fine as long as you ensure that he ends up with a female dwarf. Kib and Onol however will only ever enter the lover status and won't get marriedd. Marriage is of course required for children in Dwarf Fortress so they won't be able to have children. If you can it might be good to try and get Kib and Onol together so they can mutually not want to get married and not end up stopping a dwarf that would get married from getting married.

[utunnels]

Thanks. So 'will marry...'  status is mandatory.

Now at least I can do some !!science!!. I can try embarking 100 times and see how often the game generates 2 valid couples.

[utunnels]

I wrote a lua script to find valid pairs(correct orientation, age difference<10 years).
Sadly, there can be only 1 valid couple among the seven dorfs...

Atir Kilrudvucar (male, 55.51) will marry females
Litast Mosusoddom (male, 67.43) will marry females
Reg Cattenam (male, 73.49) will marry males and will marry females
  Ushat Shelretthikut (female, 77.63)
  Solon Dodokzuglar (female, 82.21)
Ushat Shelretthikut (female, 77.63) will marry males
  Reg Cattenam (male, 73.49)
Solon Dodokzuglar (female, 82.21) will marry males
  Reg Cattenam (male, 73.49)

[Lexyvil]

I also tried something similar in one of my old forts. I did make a post about it somewhere, it was about two years ago (It should be an easy find in my forum profile).

At first, I created a fort far away from any civilizations and I made sure it was on an island; I was hoping that no migrants would come. They still came though... Then I learned from someone else on the forums that you have to meddle with the population cap. Apparently, even with the lowest cap, it doesn't stop dwarfs from breeding if they end up being in love (from what I remember).

I always wish there was an easy way to play with and only with the 7 starting dwarfs.

[utunnels]

Oh, by the way, here's the script I'm working on...

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150144.0