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[AceSV]

The plan is to wage war with all civs.  And this won't be the vanilla civs, no, it will be the Furry Fortress civs, so if all goes well according to plan, I'll be at war with goblins, elves, humans, dwarves and 5 of the 6 animal races: Vulps (fox), Lagomers (rabbit), Komodo (lizards), Anatos (ducks), Equids (horses) and Leokin (lions).  One of the 6 animal races will be the one I'm playing as.  Because Vulps start in Tundra biomes, they are often isolated from the rest of the world, so I will probably play as Vulps and select a central area where all the other races will be my neighbors. 

Small or Pocket world with high number of sites and civs to maximize chance of encountering a lot of enemy civs and not killing FPS. 

Because I want WAR and not megabeasts, I'm going to set the number of beasts to the lowest setting, and avoid breaching the caverns for as long as I can. 

I'll give myself one year to get ready, seizing all caravan goods during that time, and then begin actively slaughtering merchants and diplomats in an attempt to start war. 



Before I jump into this crazy plan, it's worth pointing out that I'm not fantastic at defense strategy, and I'm often attacked before I'm ready, so I want to get some ideas about defense and quickly setting up a fortress first. 

In the past, I've had luck with what I call Dyson Webs which is basically a ring of cage traps all over the map.  In the past, I've caught literally half of the invaders in an ambush or small siege before they ever got to my front gate, but it's not the fastest defense to set up and it's very resource intensive.  Also, cage traps need some siegeless time to be reset, which I may not get if I'm at war with everyone. 

I like building castles, so I might look for a source of clay and try to build some big constructions.  Again, if I'm constantly under siege, I'm not going to have a lot of safe time for civilians to build constructions, so I'll only have whatever I can set up in the first year.  However, I might be able to build some kind of artificial giant tree with branches that invaders can't reach.  Interesting...

[TheFlame52]

Cage nets can be set up very quickly if you put your entire fort to it. In Bastiongate (4x4), I set up a cage net in 2 years and I didn't even have wood. In Oppression Tower (3x3), I set one up in six months.

[i2amroy]

A modified Goblin Grinder design should still work fine. Just basically do this:

P = pressure plate
C = hatch over empty space
' = floor
_ = trapped floor
s = stairs from bottom to top

Code: [Select]

Top level
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
'CP_______PC'
XXXXXX_XXXXXX
'CP___s___PC'
XXXXXX_XXXXXX
'CP_______PC'
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX

middle level
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXsXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
XXXXXXXXXXXXX

bottom level
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...__s__...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
XXXXXXXXXXXXX

End result should be that enemies run into the grinder until they hit the pressure plate, at which point the hatch opens and they either turn around or fall into the pit. (You might want to use two hatches in a row if you are dealing with very fast moving enemies, which would length then whole grinder length by 2, 1 in each direction). They then run back and forth over the grinder traps, trying to either get into your fortress or escape the grinder, until they eventually grind themselves down to nothingness. Note: Use traps that are good at not sticking here, you can't exactly clean them out while the grinder is in use. AFAIK they should be able to climb out, but some alterations that you could do to make it more difficult would be to:
1) Smooth everything
2) Turn the single hatch into a 3x3 of hatches to lessen the chance of the enemy being next to a wall to grab, still making sure that they had an overhang beneath them.
3) Increase the drop beneath the hatches and raise the ceiling above the grinder.

Built right, a good goblin grinder can resist a near infinite amount of enemies.

Alternative design: Instead of using weapon traps, cover the entire grinder floor with upright spears that you link to a repeater + lever. Once you have some enemies trapped in it, just pull the lever to start the spears moving and wait.

Lastly if you are expecting multiple sieges in a row you might want to have 2-3 different grinders with the ability to lock one off so that you can clean it out and retrieve the loot.

[Loud Whispers]

God damn crazy fox people not content with just flooding the world with magma, no we have to conquer the world...

[Naryar]

Posting to watch. Science on war and sieges in DF2014 is relevant to my interests.

Also, furries killing other furries. I am intrigued.

[Max™]

Two words:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Girlinhat]

I might duplicate this task.

[Max™]

I might duplicate this task.

Whoa, nice to meetcha Girlinhat, the gf loves your avatar and both of us appreciate your contributions to the process of burning, melting, abusing, torturing, breaking, crushing, scarring, and otherwise being monstrous raising dorflets to be useful members of a fort! I don't poke around the lower boards much.

[Girlinhat]

I've been mostly about Other Games, but then I was like "You know what... dwarf."  I've also been looking into doing videos, and editing down an entire fortress to a 15 minute action reel for convenient, bite-sized viewing.  But that's neither here nor now.  Here is war, and now is... um... more war.

[AceSV]

A modified Goblin Grinder design should still work fine.

Does a Goblin Grinder still work in DF2014?  The AI doesn't blunder into floor traps quite like it used to.  I mostly see them stop and wait next to the trap rather than attempt to cross it. 

Two words:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As for this strategy, maybe as a last resort, but obviously I'd prefer to retrieve the "goblinite" from the battlefield.  If I embark at a volcano, I'll try some kind of magma trap but magma sea to surface pumps have caused me a lot of trouble in the past. 



I'm starting to get an idea for an entrance, but it's very 3D, so hard to show.  I'm imagining a ramp downwards to the fortress, zigzagging to keep enemies inside for as long as possible, and completely open with fortifications on the upper levels. 

Code: [Select]

Side View:
F        r  r = ramp
W       rW  W = Wall
W      rWW  F = Fortification
W     rWWW  D = Door to Fortress
W    rWWWW
W   rWWWWW
W  rWWWWWW
W rWWWWWWW
DrWWWWWWWW

Top View:
.............
WWWWWWWWWWWWr  .=Passable
.............  W = Unpassable
rWWWWWWWWWWWW  r = ramp
.............
WWWWWWWWWWWWr

The idea being that archers at the top will have all the time in the world to shoot at invaders as they climb down to attack the door.  But I'm not sure if the DF2014 climbing AI would just hop down instead of using ramps.  I might have to use spikes or water to keep them from jumping.  And I'm also thinking, why not just build a wall and a mote? 

[AceSV]

Oh wait, here's a thought, concentric walls. 

Code: [Select]


.................
.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.
.~WWWWWWWWWWWWW~.
.~W...........W~.
.~W.WWWWWWWWW.W~.
.~W.W.......W.W~.
..b.W.>WWWW.b.W~.
.~W.W.......W.W~.
.~W.WWWWWWWWW.W~.
.~W...........W~.
.~WWWWWWWWWWWWW~.
.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.
.................

This is significantly zoomed out.  The walls would have fortifications on each side and some kind of bridges so that defenders can cross between the inner and outer walls as needed.  Shoot at the invaders as they circle the mote, shoot at the invaders as they walk through the inner ring, raise both drawbridges so that they're trapped inside the outer ring and shoot at them til we run out of ammo and hope they die.  Could also do crazy things like flood the outer ring, make atom smashers along the outer ring, activate spike traps throughout the outer ring, etc.  Kinda mega-projecty.  I think I'd make the outer wall during the first year and then build the inner ring at my leisure. 


Now that I look at it, I guess I don't need there to be an O shape if the entire fortress is underground, just a zig-zag, but I might want some daylight to grow hemp. 

[Girlinhat]

I know you're going furry, but let's look at this from a dwarven standpoint.  Do you want to cheese it, or do you want sword-and-board soldiers up front holding the enemy in place while archers rain death on them?  Is it worth taking over the world if it means you have to live with the shame of abusing traps and pathfinding?

[Devin]

God damn crazy fox people not content with just flooding the world with magma, no we have to conquer the world...

...crazy like a fox?

[miauw62]

A modified Goblin Grinder design should still work fine. Just basically do this:

P = pressure plate
C = hatch over empty space
' = floor
_ = trapped floor
s = stairs from bottom to top

Code: [Select]

Top level
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
'CP_______PC'
XXXXXX_XXXXXX
'CP___s___PC'
XXXXXX_XXXXXX
'CP_______PC'
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX

middle level
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXsXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
XXXXXXXXXXXXX

bottom level
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...__s__...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
X...XXXXX...X
XXXXXXXXXXXXX

End result should be that enemies run into the grinder until they hit the pressure plate, at which point the hatch opens and they either turn around or fall into the pit. (You might want to use two hatches in a row if you are dealing with very fast moving enemies, which would length then whole grinder length by 2, 1 in each direction). They then run back and forth over the grinder traps, trying to either get into your fortress or escape the grinder, until they eventually grind themselves down to nothingness. Note: Use traps that are good at not sticking here, you can't exactly clean them out while the grinder is in use. AFAIK they should be able to climb out, but some alterations that you could do to make it more difficult would be to:
1) Smooth everything
2) Turn the single hatch into a 3x3 of hatches to lessen the chance of the enemy being next to a wall to grab, still making sure that they had an overhang beneath them.
3) Increase the drop beneath the hatches and raise the ceiling above the grinder.

Built right, a good goblin grinder can resist a near infinite amount of enemies.

Alternative design: Instead of using weapon traps, cover the entire grinder floor with upright spears that you link to a repeater + lever. Once you have some enemies trapped in it, just pull the lever to start the spears moving and wait.

Lastly if you are expecting multiple sieges in a row you might want to have 2-3 different grinders with the ability to lock one off so that you can clean it out and retrieve the loot.

Which weapons are best for not sticking?

[i2amroy]

Last I knew either slashing or blunt worked best (slashing being the more effective of the two at killing things quickly, but making more mess to clean up/haul), but I haven't checked if that's changed (or someone did some true !!SCIENCE!! on it) since 34.x.. Do note that you will want to disable the mechanics labor or do something similar with burrows to stop the mechanics from going into the grinder while it's working, since if a trap does jam they'll try to go fix it irregardless of the enemies standing all around. Also note that if you are using weapon traps the quality of the mechanism is important, with higher quality mechanisms making for more accurate attacks from the trap.