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[c0mplex]

For a while now I have been going back and forth between dwarves, humans, warlocks, and a small amount of succubi attempts. The more I played any of these different races the more I stat to miss features from the others, making it hard to stick with one fortress or race. So I want to ask if it is possible to somehow combine the races in some manner, as in make available all the different workshops and reactions regardless of race. My knowledge of modding this game is incredibly small and my experience in doing so is only in removing a tag from two plants and a failed attempt to add reactions to a workshop so I do not know if actually altering the game to allow this is possible.

My second question is if such a race could ever be officially introduced into the mod; as in one that can do everything, or next to everything that the other races can do to the same degree as the original. I understand that humans sort of fill this role, but they just cannot do everything the other races can, they only have a limited amount of access to some of their stuff.

I understand that the mod has been progressively working to make each of the races more unique and here I am asking if it is possible to make a race capable of going against that notion completely, but there are just so much things I like from the different races that I just don't like picking and choosing.

[smakemupagus]

Yeah, to get started it's very simple, take a look at the Permitted buildings and Permitted reactions in each races' entity file.  Each building is one token and each reaction is one token, just copy/paste however you like.

Regarding whether it's going to be official, i think you answered your own question

[c0mplex]

Yeah, to get started it's very simple, take a look at the Permitted buildings and Permitted reactions in each races' entity file.  Each building is one token and each reaction is one token, just copy/paste however you like.

Well as I said, my understanding and experience in modding DF is very limited so quite honestly I do not know where to start to look for the tokens or the Permitted buildings/reactions.

I am glad though that the limitations on what one race can do and what it cannot at least sounds to be easily altered. It'll probably take a while for me to actually figure out where to find (and identify) the tokens and where to paste 'em but now that I know this is possible I don't think I can play again until I get it down right.

Thanks for the info.

[smakemupagus]

Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\
in files that begin with "entity_"

In the case of the playable races, permissions are the lions' share of text within those files.
You can search in files for "PERMITTED_", of course; there will be hundreds of hits for each of the playable races. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Searching for: PERMITTED_
F:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF V6.2\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\entity_evil_warlock.txt: 1780
F:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF V6.2\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\entity_good_dwarf.txt: 4204
F:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF V6.2\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\entity_good_gnome.txt: 1488
F:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF V6.2\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\entity_good_human.txt: 3642
F:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF V6.2\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\entity_hermit.txt: 914
F:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF V6.2\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\entity_savage_kobold.txt: 1971
F:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF V6.2\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\entity_slaver_orc.txt: 1401
F:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF V6.2\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\entity_slaver_succubus.txt: 934
Found 18246 occurrence(s) in 25 file(s)

For example, you might find this block of text in the orc entity

Code: [Select]

[PERMITTED_BUILDING:ORC_FLETCHER]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BOW_COMPOSITE_WOOD_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BOW_COMPOSITE_BONE_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BOW_COMPOSITE_IRON_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ARROW_RUSTY_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ARROW_COPPER_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ARROW_OBSIDIAN_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ARROW_IRON_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ARROW_BRONZE_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ARROW_STEEL_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ARROW_GEM_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ARROW_ENCH_BLOOD_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ARROW_ENCH_CRYSTAL_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ARROW_ENCH_MITHRIL_ORC]

Copy/paste that into another races' entity, and they'll have access to the orcish fletcher, and all its reactions.  Now, whether or not your new custom race has access to all the needed materials to create the building, or all the reagents for every reaction is another story! 

I don't really want to get too much into modding 101, you can find beginner resources on the wiki and people answering intermediate type questions up in the modding forum. good luck!

[c0mplex]

I see. That is very helpful in getting a head start. I do intend on going over the wiki's modding info to make sure I don't break something or screw up but at least now I know what to pay the most attention to.

Thanks again for the help. Hopefully, my dwarves will soon start trading like humans, messing with souls like warlocks and succubi and perhaps later on they can start tinkering with machines like gnomes.

[Fairin]

toss in the castes for the races and make a dwarf fort, orc fort and warlock tower all in the same map complete with burrows! . cause a loyalty cascade and watch them duke it out!

[c0mplex]

So I went ahead and began to copy and paste a whole bunch of human and warlock buildings and slapped it into the dwarf stuff. Everything seemed to work out okay until I tried using the warlock's graveyard. Seems that my dwarf assigned to it doesn't want to do the job I set for it (and no he isn't doing other jobs).

A brief examination of the graveyard in the manual says that it uses the "necromancy" skill. A little look at the files show that this is really just the strand extraction skill. Now I thought that would mean turning on prayer for my dwarf would allow him to use the graveyard, but if that was the case I wouldn't be posting this.

So yeah, I'm a bit stumped as to what is preventing my dwarf from performing the job.

Other then that though, things seem to be going quite well. Saving souls for later use with the soul siphon is great and the human trade buildings are very nice to have for several reasons.

It is a bit of a shame I couldn't get anything from the succubi but the files for them seem like complete messes for some reason so I'm just afraid of looking through all the data strands for specific lines.

I wonder if I should start looking at the orcs and gnomes for new stuff to steal. 

[smakemupagus]

If you need help debugging modding work that you've done, we need to know what is in the code that you wrote/copied, not what is in the manual. 

The reaction that doesn't work for you probably has a SKILL associated; what is it?  If you've enabled the corresponding labor on a dwarf, then that isn't the problem.

edit.  for what it's worth, unless you're also tinkering with the spawnunit command, i'm not sure that any creatures you manage to summon would be friendly to *your* civ; I wonder if they wouldn't be WARLOCK_CIV.  I may be wrong, just a heads up.

[Emperor]

edit.  for what it's worth, unless you're also tinkering with the spawnunit command, i'm not sure that any creatures you manage to summon would be friendly to *your* civ; I wonder if they wouldn't be WARLOCK_CIV.  I may be wrong, just a heads up.

I am not sure about the WARLOCK_CIV thing, but I'm fairly certain that any spawned zombies/qhouls etc. will be OPPOSED_TO_LIFE and will try to slaughter your dwarves.

[c0mplex]

Well as I said, I looked at the files and found that the skill used for the Graveyard's reactions is strand extraction, or in other words, prayer. Enabling praying on my dwarf didn't work so yeah I don't know what to do about that.

Thanks for the heads up though. I was suspicious about if that would happen as well so I was just going to gather souls for making some buildings (like the ethereal gate). I'll test it sometime though.

While I cannot speak for all spawned undead, I don't think that the graveyard's zombies and ghouls would be opposed to life, as warlocks can make controlled and uncontrolled minions, with the uncontrolled ones being opposed to life. Since the graveyard's zombies and ghouls (save the rare chance uncontrolled ghoul) aren't listed as being opposed to life in the units screen, it should not be the case.

Then again, that's just speculation. I have absolutely no idea so I'll test it some time. For science.

[Emperor]

While I cannot speak for all spawned undead, I don't think that the graveyard's zombies and ghouls would be opposed to life, as warlocks can make controlled and uncontrolled minions, with the uncontrolled ones being opposed to life. Since the graveyard's zombies and ghouls (save the rare chance uncontrolled ghoul) aren't listed as being opposed to life in the units screen, it should not be the case.

Ah, yes...You are right - I just forgot that the Warlock ghouls have [CAN_DO_INTERACTION:REMOVE_OPPOSED_TO_LIFE]

So, we came to a logical conclusion - with some tinkering, ghouls are safe to spawn. But what about skeletons? They have NOT_LIVING tag - I wonder what this would cause.

[smakemupagus]

Well as I said, I looked at the files and found that the skill used for the Graveyard's reactions is strand extraction, or in other words, prayer. Enabling praying on my dwarf didn't work so yeah I don't know what to do about that.

OK -- my best guess then since you got the labors right, is a player oversight in game (i don't know how experienced of a player you are, but "dwarf doesn't want to do X" threads on general are 95%+ of the time player error or player not knowing about some DF quirk).  Burrows, workshop profiles, stockpiles, stockpile links, bins, lack of reagents, dwarf is thirsty, just need to wait a moment, etc. etc. etc. 

Maybe it's not in this case but you haven't given much info to go on to give a better guess.

[c0mplex]

Well I established that I activated the correct labor (prayer) and that I made sure that my dwarf wasn't occupied by other jobs (I.E. he actively had "No Job" as his listed task while the Graveyard job was set). While I am not the most experienced player, I am aware of a good portion of the possible issues and made sure those were not a possibility. There are no burrows so that isn't it. I didn't have the workshop's profile set on anything, allowing all dwarves to use it. The job doesn't require items to perform so anything regarding items or stockpiles is out. My dwarf wasn't hungry or thirsty. And I did wait quite a bit and often confirmed that my dwarf didn't have any jobs or other tasks. My dwarf had access to the workshop (he wasn't locked away from it or anything). No animals or monsters were out there spooking my dwarves. I saw no job cancellation alerts nor suspension alerts. The job was listed under the "jobs" screen and listed as "Inactive". Pretty much everything I could think of didn't seem to apply.

From my experience with using the workshop with warlocks, I never had an issue with it (in fact, I often had to use profiles when playing warlocks because warlocks would often work at the graveyard  when a job is active there) so it shouldn't be an issue with the building itself.

The only reason I brought it up really is because I am not sure if there is a difference between the dwarves and the warlocks when it comes to skills; after all, the prayer skill is labeled as Necromancy for Warlocks and Prayer for Dwarves. They are the same skill (Prayer/Shaman) as listed in Dwarf Therapist, but that difference in name in-game is suspicious to me and may imply some sort of discrepancy in what tasks are allowed for one race and the other. I haven't had a similar issue with other workshops from non-dwarf civs, it's just this one workshop that is being weird and the main difference that I can detect is that this one uses the prayer skill for the job.

[smakemupagus]

No, I'm sorry, I must not be explaining clearly enough.  I really did mean it when i said that if your SKILL token matches then that is not the problem.

For the purposes of assigning labors all that matters is the reaction token which in this case is SKILL:EXTRACT_STRAND.  The other things (priest, necromancer, acolyte, etc.) that you are seeing just superficial pieces of flair.  Specifically they are set by the PROFESSION_NAME (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.34:Creature_token#P) or CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME creature tokens.  Note that it is the profession, not the labor, that has been renamed by this token.

Spoiler: "all these are superficial names that are not screwing up your reactions" (click to show/hide)

Searching for: PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND
creature_fooccubus.txt(70): [PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:Cultist:Cultists]
creature_hermit.txt(166): [PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:apostle of armok:apostles of armok]
creature_kobold_camp.txt(106): [PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:believer of griblin:believers of griblin]
creature_orcfort_taigaorc.txt(181): [PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:acolyte:acolyte]#### "apostle of armok"
creature_standard.txt(181): [PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:apostle of armok:apostles of armok]
creature_standard.txt(1785): YESMONASTERY[CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:*Nun of Armok*:*Nun of Armok*] 
creature_standard.txt(1802): YESMONASTERY[CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:*Apostle of Armok*:*Apostles of Armok*] 
creature_standard.txt(1821): YESMONASTERY[CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:*Priest of Armok*:*Priests of Armok*] 
creature_standard.txt(1871): YESMONASTERY[CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:*Priestess of Armok*:*Priestesses of Armok*] 
creature_standard.txt(1921): YESMONASTERY[CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:*High Priest of Armok*:*High Priests of Armok*] 
creature_standard.txt(1987): YESMONASTERY[CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:*High Priestess of Armok*:*High Priestesses of Armok*] 
creature_standard.txt(5246): YESSLAVE[CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:enslaved strand extractor:enslaved strand extractors]
creature_standard.txt(5523): [PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:priest:priests]
creature_warlock.txt(51): [PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:necromancer:necromancers]
creature_warlock.txt(1549): [PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:Necromancer:Necromancers]
creature_warlock.txt(1615): [PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:Necromancer:Necromancers]
creature_warlock.txt(1638): [PROFESSION_NAME:STRAND_EXTRACTOR:Necromancer:Necromancers]
Found 17 occurrence(s) in 6 file(s)

[c0mplex]

I understand what you are trying to say. I just had some suspicions there may have been some alterations regarding the skills that may act differently between one race and another as I do not know all the intricacies of how the game's functions work. For all I know, some of the warlock buildings may have limitations and checks to make sure that only certain specific units can run certain operations and prevent other units from activating the job and I just overlooked them when editing the files. This mod is a rather heavy overhaul of the base game after all so it did not seem to be outside of the realm of possibility that some of the skills or workshops were altered in ways to suit the modded race that may not work correctly for another race.

Maybe I'm over thinking things a bit, however after eliminating most of the common issues that would prevent a dwarf from performing a job, I had to look towards a less common possibility.

Honestly I do not know what to say about the problem more than I already have, that I do not know the cause of the issue and that I suspect it could be a quirk of the mod rather than the base game itself. All I can offer is my suspicions.