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[Ozarck]

I've noticed two things lately about the armory page.
1) many of the entries have no additional information on their individual pages - the information they do have is simply a copy of the main armory page info.
2) the main page is getting quite long.

I have three suggestions I'd like a little discussion on
1) maybe make the armory main page a true index, and remove all the redundant info, leaving that info on the individual pages.
2) create sub-pages for the various categories: conventional, uncon, exotic, aux, implants, medical, etc. (or larger categories such as weapons, armor, body, and systems.)
3) Whether keeping the  armory as one page or breaking it into categories, instead of moving all the information to the individual pages, eliminate individual pages, as they contain no additional info.

My half formed opinion:
The first option makes the Armory into a category page, which abstracts all the information about the items. This abstraction means people wold have to click on every individual page to find out anything. Perhaps better would be to streamline descriptions on the main page and flesh out the description on the individual pages. (for example, what cartridges are available for the elemental infuser?)

The second option seems better, breaking the information into more manageable chunks. thus, a person with exotic skill is not wasting time scrolling through conventional weapons (I know, the contents link at the top does that too).

The third option makes adding object specific information more cumbersome, cluttering up the main page, while eliminating a lot of redundant pages.

[AoshimaMichio]

I've noticed two things lately about the armory page.
1) many of the entries have no additional information on their individual pages - the information they do have is simply a copy of the main armory page info.
2) the main page is getting quite long.

1. Mostly because there isn't much meaningful information to add. We kind of do have a policy to keep special stuff of each item on individual pages rather than clutter armory page.
2. Very true, and cluttered.

I have three suggestions I'd like a little discussion on
1) maybe make the armory main page a true index, and remove all the redundant info, leaving that info on the individual pages.
2) create sub-pages for the various categories: conventional, uncon, exotic, aux, implants, medical, etc. (or larger categories such as weapons, armor, body, and systems.)
3) Whether keeping the  armory as one page or breaking it into categories, instead of moving all the information to the individual pages, eliminate individual pages, as they contain no additional info.

1. Some pruning is needed, I agree with that. However I think it should contain a little more than just name of each item.
2. I don't think this is a good idea. It just leaves things even more scattered, hidden behind multiple links. You kinda defeated point of this with noting existance of TOC.
3. What?



As the poll earlier pointed out, most of people prefer reading individual item pages rather than actual armory page. Taking this in consideration I think it would be good idea to reduce amount of information on Armory page. Reduce information in armory to name, price and extremely concise information. Such as:
2 - Gauss Rifle - Shoots various types of ferrous metal slugs.

[Ozarck]

there isn't much meaningful information to add. We kind of do have a policy to keep special stuff of each item on individual pages rather than clutter armory page.

3) Whether keeping the  armory as one page or breaking it into categories, instead of moving all the information to the individual pages, eliminate individual pages, as they contain no additional info.

3. What?

there isn't much meaningful information to add.

As the poll earlier pointed out, most of people prefer reading individual item pages rather than actual armory page.

most people prefer to read the individual item descriptions. Frankly, I find clicking on individual item pages to be a waste of time, nine out of ten.

2) create sub-pages for the various categories: conventional, uncon, exotic, aux, implants, medical, etc. (or larger categories such as weapons, armor, body, and systems.)

2. I don't think this is a good idea. It just leaves things even more scattered, hidden behind multiple links. You kinda defeated point of this with noting existance of TOC.

I hardly think it would create a labyrinthine challenge for people to wade through with a map, compass, and decoder ring. It would take the various categories and give each it's own space, removing clutter from the main page and giving the subpages more elbow room to work with.

Taking this in consideration I think it would be good idea to reduce amount of information on Armory page. Reduce information in armory to name, price and extremely concise information. Such as:
2 - Gauss Rifle - Shoots various types of ferrous metal slugs.

I'm not opposed to streamlining the main page like this, but I don't see a problem with doing it the other way either.

[Nikitian]

Actually, I think it is fine as it currently is, since it imitates the original style of Piecewise's Armory list, and we want to preserve it. (Of course, some downsizing is necessary as well, but only a little - say, remove all 'Special' sections/ones listing the variant builds of the item, and that would be it.)

What needs to be done, however, is splitting the Armory page into the actual official Armory list and extended "All the assorted crap" list for obsolete & niche items. For example, all the helmet bits (which should be actual full suits, but no one cared to investigate them in full) could be moved away from 'Armor' section, making for better readability and ease of use. Same goes for now-obsolete Tinker Projects (such as, as we discussed with the creator, Mythril Penetrator-designs); same goes for Mk I and Mk II, Civic Defender's Longcoat; etc.

To be honest, the only thing that has stopped me from splitting off that second page, to this day, is the trouble of coming up with a suitable name page for this 'Backroom Armory'. (Which is, to think of it, a nice title on its own, funny enough. )

[Twinwolf]

Alright, finished the Mission 13 summary, as some might have seen on the OOC thread. Got a problem though: the wiki won't really cooperate. In general, even being on the wiki for some reason causes my computer to slow to a crawl and a bunch of pop-ups I don't understand to appear periodically. So, while reading it is just annoying, editing is damn near impossible.

[Ozarck]

Actually, I think it is fine as it currently is, since it imitates the original style of Piecewise's Armory list, and we want to preserve it.

"We" do? Why? Who?

[Nikitian]

Because we're now the official repository of the Armory list of GM, and we probably want to keep it the way he left it to us? Because that's how we've kept it so far (and never wanted to change the status quo)?
My assertion might have come a little too strong, but I do believe in it, and I think I am not alone in this. Especially since the Piecewise-style armory item descriptions won the vote by large, and this might be related. ^{_{(*grumble grumble* Speaking of votes, why didn't they include "I don't use the Armory page(s) on the wiki" vote option as I recommended... *grumble grumble*)}}

Actually, this might be the key to the distinction. Keep the Armory list descriptions funny and cool (and maybe not that long - just a few sentences, no more than a single paragraph), and get technical in the individual item pages. It sort of accomplishes the idea of:

2 - Gauss Rifle - Shoots various types of ferrous metal slugs.

only by preserving the enjoyable traditions of ER.

[AoshimaMichio]

15 - Megaton Charge - Take a fucking guess.

This is one of the best descriptions in armory, if not the best. Short, funny and very descriptive.

Edit: Now that I looked at armory once again with open eyes I see there's a lot of clean-up waiting to be done. Gah, maybe tomorrow...

[Nikitian]

15 - Megaton Charge - Take a fucking guess.

This is one of the best descriptions in armory, if not the best. Short, funny and very descriptive.

Yeah, but it's one-of-a-kind, and the biggest punch of it is made through the previous repeated descriptions of our nukes, each shorter than previous and more to the point, culminating in this gem. Without them, when taken alone, it isn't quite as funny, and is just plain rude without reason. It's the magic of the 'story' the Armory list weaves that breathes brilliant radiance into this single most concise description. 

[AoshimaMichio]

Quite true.

[Ozarck]

Note that the contents o the armory page have increased over time, from what was inherited from PW. Perhaps the original "everything in one big list" style was workable and interesting on a smaller scale, but with the larger scale, it becomes unweildly.

15 - Megaton Charge - Take a fucking guess.

This is one of the best descriptions in armory, if not the best. Short, funny and very descriptive.

Yeah, but it's one-of-a-kind, and the biggest punch of it is made through the previous repeated descriptions of our nukes, each shorter than previous and more to the point, culminating in this gem. Without them, when taken alone, it isn't quite as funny, and is just plain rude without reason. It's the magic of the 'story' the Armory list weaves that breathes brilliant radiance into this single most concise description. 

Brevity is the soul of wit, as they say. Stories aren't damaged by chapter breaks. And this kind of serial descriptive reduction would still flourish in a chapter-oriented style - though not in a "make the main page all one sentence descriptions" style.

[Nikitian]

You may be right. However, down to it, the list can still be made far shorter than it currently is, without much loss, isn't it? As I said, let's keep only the 'official' Armory-provisioned items there, and it'll do just fine.

15 - Megaton Charge - Take a fucking guess.

This is one of the best descriptions in armory, if not the best. Short, funny and very descriptive.

Yeah, but it's one-of-a-kind, and the biggest punch of it is made through the previous repeated descriptions of our nukes, each shorter than previous and more to the point, culminating in this gem. Without them, when taken alone, it isn't quite as funny, and is just plain rude without reason. It's the magic of the 'story' the Armory list weaves that breathes brilliant radiance into this single most concise description. 

Brevity is the soul of wit, as they say. Stories aren't damaged by chapter breaks. And this kind of serial descriptive reduction would still flourish in a chapter-oriented style - though not in a "make the main page all one sentence descriptions" style.

I agree; however, while story isn't damaged by chapter breaks, it is damaged by discontinuity - if all the descriptions are shut away onto separate pages, the order and the amount of them one reads is reduced greatly, resulting in lacking impact. It's the difference between splitting the story into chapters in the same book and into short stories each in its own separate book: few would have the patience and interest to get through them all (to say nothing of doing it 'in the correct order') if they are not under the same cover; as a result, the overall story suffers.

[NAV]

I agree/think that the armoury should be split in two. One shorter page for the official armoury gear, and another page to put all the non-standard or obsolete gear. Maybe a third for prototypes. The descriptions for the most part seem to have the right length and content.

[Ozarck]

You may be right. However, down to it, the list can still be made far shorter than it currently is, without much loss, isn't it? As I said, let's keep only the 'official' Armory-provisioned items there, and it'll do just fine.

Brevity is the soul of wit, as they say. Stories aren't damaged by chapter breaks. And this kind of serial descriptive reduction would still flourish in a chapter-oriented style - though not in a "make the main page all one sentence descriptions" style.

I agree; however, while story isn't damaged by chapter breaks, it is damaged by discontinuity - if all the descriptions are shut away onto separate pages, the order and the amount of them one reads is reduced greatly, resulting in lacking impact. It's the difference between splitting the story into chapters in the same book and into short stories each in its own separate book: few would have the patience and interest to get through them all (to say nothing of doing it 'in the correct order') if they are not under the same cover; as a result, the overall story suffers.
[/quote]
I think the only items for which one needs to hop from one 'chapter' to a previous one to understand anything are the Exotic Brain Amps, which need information from the Uncon Math Amps to be understood. And there is no reason this should be, excluding "preserving history." And I think that is a weak reason not to change the exotic descriptions to be self contained. After all, the GM did release this information to a group of people in order for it all to be amassed, edited, improved, and coordinated. No sense in having all these mostly intelligent beings working on information if not to improve upon things. I mean, if Steve wants the Armory list to be partial, vague, and unhelpful, that's one thing ...

[Radio Controlled]

Maybe we could look into putting each category (or maybe each item?) into its own spoiler.