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Author Topic: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version  (Read 3092 times)

Terff

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dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« on: April 06, 2015, 06:13:11 pm »

The last marriages I've seen have been in 0.34 and I could really use one in my newest fortress because civ is dead and we have no married couples and we need kids.  Currently we are 8 years into the fortress and two of my dwarves have been "lovers" for a large portion of that time but haven't married yet, I even have assigned them a room together so whenever they are idle they are together.  Is it possible for dwarves to never marry despite being lovers or am I missing some other requirement?
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I need some way to put armor on babies so I can start training them early.
Quote from: Lectorog on August 06, 2013, 03:57:45 pm

A goblin siege!?  Good we haven't had one in awhile, we are running out of new clothes

Wheeljack

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2015, 06:24:35 pm »

Yes, it is very possible for dwarves to only take lovers. Some of them are just not interested in marriage. Getting dwarves to marry is much harder in the newer version. They require time to socialize, and they require close proximity to socialize. Big meeting areas are problematic for this, because dwarves can space out. So if you have big areas where they meet, try making them temporarily small. Dwarves dispositoned toward marriage will marry if they have enough time to make friends. Just gotta be patient with it.

Kids are also harder to come by too because now dwarves must actually be next to each other instead of the spores of earlier versions. Locking the couple in rooms might help, but I hear assigning them to their own wrestling squad works really well too. Hope this helps!
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utunnels

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2015, 07:00:04 pm »

Well once I retired a fort there were too many couples after I returned. Some dorfs even have both a lover and a spouse....

I guess the game checks less strictly when running the fort in background.
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TheFlame52

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2015, 07:10:13 pm »

Two of my starting seven finally fell in love after almost 23 years. I've had the starting seven form whole families in ten years. I'd say it's bugged, or something got fucked up when orientations were introduced.

utunnels

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2015, 07:25:38 pm »

Two of my starting seven finally fell in love after almost 23 years. I've had the starting seven form whole families in ten years. I'd say it's bugged, or something got fucked up when orientations were introduced.

Does that affect populations in legends mode? It can be helpful to control goblin populations...
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The troglodyte head shakes The Troglodyte around by the head, tearing apart the head's muscle!

Risen Asteshdakas, Ghostly Recruit has risen and is haunting the fortress!

Terff

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2015, 08:29:23 pm »

The sad thing is... one of my caged troglodyte has already had a kid in its cage ;_;
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I need some way to put armor on babies so I can start training them early.
Quote from: Lectorog on August 06, 2013, 03:57:45 pm

A goblin siege!?  Good we haven't had one in awhile, we are running out of new clothes

utunnels

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2015, 08:39:23 pm »

What if you retire and create some new sites? You always get 7 free dorfs so eventually they will be your migrants.
And the dorfs will get married if the overseer(you) don't watch.
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The troglodyte head shakes The Troglodyte around by the head, tearing apart the head's muscle!

Risen Asteshdakas, Ghostly Recruit has risen and is haunting the fortress!

Xenophilius

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2015, 03:00:29 am »

Waiting for your dwarves to get married on their own can indeed take forever. If you want to speed things up, there is Loci's speed dating method

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=144945.msg6028634#msg6028634

Just make sure you have valid couples (not gay, 10 years age difference max.) that are friends already and you can get them married and mass producing babies in a couple of months. If they are not friends, they don't seem to talk at all in their pre-honeymoon suites.
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TheFlame52

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2015, 04:18:04 pm »

Hm. I could, I have close to a hundred former children that all need spouses...

Ianflow

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 07:28:44 pm »

I hear assigning them to their own wrestling squad works really well too. Hope this helps!

So you're telling me dwarves in my fort might explain the Urists and the Urists as "well eventually you and your friend get assigned to a private wrestling squad and you, start practicing"

Though if what you're telling me is right, does this mean livestock breeding now also requires proximity?
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And thus, "The running of the goblins" became an annual tradition and the first dwarven contraceptive.
There are no moghoppers. We have always been allies of Oceania, and at war with Eastasia.

Terff

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2015, 09:13:38 pm »

I hear assigning them to their own wrestling squad works really well too. Hope this helps!

So you're telling me dwarves in my fort might explain the Urists and the Urists as "well eventually you and your friend get assigned to a private wrestling squad and you, start practicing"

Though if what you're telling me is right, does this mean livestock breeding now also requires proximity?
Yeah they need to touch.  I'm working on a troglodyte zoo in my fortress since we don't have dwarves that are breeding and we got like 4 troglodyte babies so far by having them all in a room together.
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I need some way to put armor on babies so I can start training them early.
Quote from: Lectorog on August 06, 2013, 03:57:45 pm

A goblin siege!?  Good we haven't had one in awhile, we are running out of new clothes

Zac

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2015, 11:31:57 pm »

I think one of the big problem is that there is way too much gay and asexual people in the dwarven society. I'm always glad to see homosexuality being present in my video games but the percentage of homosexual dwarves should be the usual 5% of the overall pop, not a majority of them. In my last fortress, the only mariage I had was a gay one, I suppose those two dudes was preventing the heteros from marrying because the thought of a heterosexual mariage would have harmed the "sanctity of their union" or something like that.

I find the 10 year difference already strange, especially for people that can live up to two hundred years, there is no need for more restriction.
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Ianflow

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2015, 12:49:27 am »

I think one of the big problem is that there is way too much gay and asexual people in the dwarven society. I'm always glad to see homosexuality being present in my video games but the percentage of homosexual dwarves should be the usual 5% of the overall pop, not a majority of them. In my last fortress, the only mariage I had was a gay one, I suppose those two dudes was preventing the heteros from marrying because the thought of a heterosexual mariage would have harmed the "sanctity of their union" or something like that.

I find the 10 year difference already strange, especially for people that can live up to two hundred years, there is no need for more restriction.

I recalled that it was maybe 1% asexual, 10% gay, and 1% bisexual if I am up to date. I'll check the wiki, but personally I like the change. I would prefer bisexual dwarfs being the mode, but ah well.
One of the issues with your fort rather than the psuedo-political belief I'm not sure is possible in game (and probably should never be added), but rather an issue centered around proximity.

The one thing Toady made more accurate is relationship dynamics. I learned in one of my PSY classes that familiarity breeds like, and proximity breeds familiarity. If you spend your time around someone who likes stuff, and you like stuff, and some of that stuff is the same, you are much more likely to be in a relationship together, or to become close with them rather than someone you literally just met who dislikes everything you like.
It's more apparent this version, but when I first started playing 2 years ago, I noticed that friendships weren't easy to start, much less relationships. My marriages were usually migrant ones. I did have 1 marriage, just one.
It was 2 miners who were almost always next to each other. They worked together, probably ate together, and so it made sense that they got married together.

The issue most likely isn't that your dorfs are all the wrong sexualities, just that they probably don't have much time to mingle, or many places. Your happily married (unless they are having fun) gay dorfs are likely coworkers.

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It is believed that this makes 71.2% of dwarves strictly heterosexual, 23.8% bisexual, 3.8% asexual, and 1.2% strictly homosexual
Nah, the wiki talks about the sexuality that is believed, as someone did the math.

In all honesty I see where you're coming from, but you've got maybe a quarter of the population who isn't likely to be making babies, with FUN existing, it really doesn't matter.
Though I really would rather Dwarves being able to have children out of wedlock, shortsword weddings, and even gold diggers. Oh and I do agree the age difference is really silly. A 50 year age difference works better, though maybe when it's a vampire the age difference no longer exists.
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And thus, "The running of the goblins" became an annual tradition and the first dwarven contraceptive.
There are no moghoppers. We have always been allies of Oceania, and at war with Eastasia.

Niddhoger

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2015, 04:32:13 am »

Considering that dorfs live 150-170 years instead of humans 70-80.... 10 year difference might make since for us but not for them.  As mentioned, the rate of childless dorfs is higher than it should be (from gay/asexuals) due to the "no marriage, no babies" bit of code in DF.  Lovers should still have a chance of knocking each other up! I also believe married dorfs can still fool around, so a bisexual that ends up in a gay marriage can still have some by-blows :p
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Saiko Kila

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Re: dwarves have not been marrying in recent version
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2015, 10:43:35 am »

10 years age difference is nothing compared to real life traditional restrictions. In European society the traditional age difference is: BRIDE_AGE = GROOM_AGE/2+7. So 14 years old can marry 14 years old, and then time flows faster for female. I've heard that due to political correctness the formula is now used for both genders, but the bride's age is the age of the younger partner instead, and the groom's age is the age of older partner. And it says whether the age difference is sociably agreeable (it should be that or less), not just the perfect age of selected bride, as in the original meaning.

Anyway, in the original formula the 10 years age difference is for men about 35 years old, and women about 25 years old, which was about the time to go married if you ever wanted to. Maybe that was the inspiration for DF's solution? Though, given that Toady One is a mathematician, I would expect something more sophisticated. Like age difference playing a part in selection process, and the best difference giving the highest chance for betrothal, but without so sharply cut threshold. Unless the dwarves are meant to be such strict conservatives.


All that said, I have no problems with marrying and children explosions. True, the baby producing machines are rarer than in older versions, so there are only some breeding pairs in the fortress. But they are very eagerly trying to do their best, and I have to limit population in *.ini, as always.
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