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[Neonivek]

Superman wins, because he's backed by the writers and won't have to train for a season to beat Goku.

Yes because the plot NEVER bent over backwards in Goku's favor.

[LordBucket]

Challenge for people who believe non-comicbook Superman wins:

Post a youtube video of any non-comic book source of Superman doing anything you believe shows Superman to be in a league above Goku. Include the name of the source material.

The time travel and memory wiping sequences from the 70s movies are the only ones I'm aware of. Every other depiction I'm aware of shows him at best being comparable to rough early to middle Z characters.

Even the infamous World of Cardboard Speech fight scene against Doomsday:

"That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't you, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am."
— Superman, Justice League Unlimited.

I mean...yes, it's a respectable feat. But again, we're talking early to middle Z material here. Hits like that are not uncommon in Dragonball. But when they happen in Dragonball, the people who take them don't go down after two hits like Doomsday did. They get back up and keep fighting for 5 more episodes.


In fact, here's Goku as a kid tanking an attack of similar magnitudek. Punched into the ground to make a crater. He gets up and keeps fighting. For another ten minutues,and then tanks an even bigger hit with a much bigger crater...and gets up again and fly/punches his entire body through his opponent's chest, killing him.

Somebody want to do some analysis and math on the size of that second crater? Looks to me like this is Goku at like ten years old tanking bigger hits that Superman is doing when he "cuts loose to show you how powerful he is."

As an adult, attacks capable of destroying planets are common.

 * Here is Vegeta destroying a planet
 * Here is Frieza destroying a planet
 * Here's Buu destroying a couple planets
 * Here's Vegeta's father destroying planets

So now that we've seen that it's done...fairly often, we can probably reasonably suggest that when somebody in Dragonball says they're going to blow up a planet, or people say that an attack would have destroyed a planet if it hadn't been stopped...it's not just hyperbole. They probably really are able to do it. So:

 * Here is Goku during the Cell Saga releasing an attack everybody watching thinks is enough to destroy the earth. Of course,being the good guy he doesn't actually destroy the planet. He teleports behind his opponent and releases it through him instead of down into the planet. Point being, it's reasonably certain that Goku is capable of planet busting as of Cell Saga.
 * And here is about 100 episode prior, repelling a planet buster

So Goku can both generate and repel planet-busting attacks...as of Cell Saga at the latest.

Now go watch Superman cutting loose and showing how powerful he is and explain to me why you think he can beat Goku?

[Andres]

Challenge for people who believe non-comicbook Superman wins:

Try not to be so accusatory.

Somebody want to do some analysis and math on the size of that second crater? Looks to me like this is Goku at like ten years old tanking bigger hits that Superman is doing when he "cuts loose to show you how powerful he is."

Goku is 15 at the time. No seriously.

* Here is Vegeta destroying a planet

I like to think of this in the same way as I like to think of GT. Maybe a little better.

[Neonivek]

Don't bother finding that link

All that will happen is you will find something saying "Ohh here Superman here is lifting a billion octillion tons" or "Here is Braniac specifically saying Superman is lifting the weight of the planet"

And Someone will show say... Superman versus Doomsday where a punch didn't send him to the moon. Or the scene where a really strong minigun knocked superman back. Or where the cities main electric line was enough to shock him. Or when a nuke knocked him on his butt.

That is the endless cycle.

Hence why I was just not going to be fair to Goku one bit. Since by all means there is no evidence to suggest Goku can survive lava (since he can't... even Broli had to protect himself from it somehow).

Even as far as make fun of the fact that Goku's lift strength is only 70kg per arm as stated during the Buu Arc (or something along those lines).

Or the time crunches in DBZ where Goku's speed is apparently incredibly slow all of a sudden. (Goodness Goku taking the scenic route?)

---

Or heck I could show Superman flying so close to a blackhole that light bends around him and swirls into the black hole.

5.42492 x 10^30 Kg multiplied by Superman's own mass (And that in fact lower then what it was... that is just for light to bend in a circular pattern, not to be pulled directly in)

The earth?

5.972 x 10^24 Kg

Superman just there lifted over 10 earths (1000000 earths to be specific. In fact the energy required for him to escape that blackhole at that point would have been enough to destroy the earth every single moment 1.4 times)

Do you want me to find the link to that episode?

---

But I also have one where Superman takes a nuke capable of leveling an entire city... without diffusing any of the energy. As in Superman absorbs all the energy in the blast.

While Goku has taken blasts before, most of the energy is still diffused into the surrounding area.

[Sergarr]

In the recent movie, Goku has also absorbed one attack directed at him fully, so that's a non-feat from Superman.

[Neonivek]

In the recent movie, Goku has also absorbed one attack directed at him fully, so that's a non-feat from Superman.

He absorbed the Ki likely. But do you have a link?

[Sergarr]

In the recent movie, Goku has also absorbed one attack directed at him fully, so that's a non-feat from Superman.

He absorbed the Ki likely.

How does that makes it less impressive? Ki blasts like that (it was a Sphere of Destruction) have energy enough to blast a planet to smithereens. A nuke doesn't.

[Radio Controlled]

And again, people, using different sources to try and prove whatever won't get us anywhere constructive. You need to compare definite versions (eg goku at end cell saga vs superman from the justice league cartoons) because if you try to use their whole accumulated history and all different incarnations (especially a problem with supes) there's no end to this. Both franchises are too big and internally not consistent enough.

However, even if we did this people will want to see their favorite 'win', so this might be an empty request if we can't dissociate objective analysis from personal favoritism in the first place. As evidenced by the kind of language used.

So, here's another question that might alleviate it a little bit (because now people don't have to feel they need to defend their favorite hero, though franchise loyalty might still prevail): could the protagonist of one beat the various antagonists of the other?

[Neonivek]

Black hole example? Is from the JLA continuity.

could the protagonist of one beat the various antagonists of the other?

Not a fair one... Since uhhh... Goku is pretty rock stupid.

Would Goku win? Probably not. His food is poisoned, and he dies (yeah Goku is resistant to poisons, but not immune. Making a super duper dose of poison would be enough)

Could Goku Win? Probably not... once again being rock stupid and all... >_<

Mind you it is unfair, it would be like putting Goku in the deathnote universe.

...

Superman versus Goku's villains?

Well he is much stronger then Frieza at least... Stronger then Cell.

It is Buu that I question. Though throwing Buu into the sun.

[Sergarr]

Black hole example? Is from the JLA continuity.

could the protagonist of one beat the various antagonists of the other?

Not a fair one... Since uhhh... Goku is pretty rock stupid.

Goku is not stupid in the area where it counts. He learned how to do the Kamehameha after watching it once. Learning Kamehameha wave took Master Roshi 50 years. He also has shown multiple time the ability to adapt his strategies to his opponent.

Goku is not stupid.

[Neonivek]

Goku has a child-like intelligence, it is part of his character.

His opponents outsmart him plenty of times and his ability to rise above such trickery to pull out a victory is part of why watching it is so entertaining.

Even if it included the REALLY stupid one where he dodged an explosion that surrounded him completely... But then again we never see what happens... so whatcha gonna do?

But I'll put it this way Sergarr...

If Lex Luthor walked upto goku and said "Drink this" he totally would. Though the only time Goku has ever been successfully drugged was when he was given "Sleeping grass" which was enough to "Knock out an elephant" and that is only canonical to the anime.

---

Though if you want fun with weirdness

Superman has survived in as I said well over 10^30 times gravity. While Vegeta has trouble in 500 times gravity.

[Sergarr]

When did Goku's opponents outsmart Goku?

[Neonivek]

When did Goku's opponents outsmart Goku?

Usually his opponents are too EVIL to do any trickery.

But there is Raditz who tricked Goku into letting go of his tail. Nappa who pretended to surrender to do a sneak attack (didn't work, but he was weaker). Lady Snake who did the whole fake fantasy world thing.

[Radio Controlled]

In retrospect, asking whether the antagonists of the franchises could beat each other might've been better to get people out of the fanboyism-mindset.

Black hole example? Is from the JLA continuity.

Yet at the same time, within jla, supes gets beaten down by villains that have about as much trouble with him as the other JLA peeps, even though they shouldn't even compare. So again, really inconsistent.

I'd say that Goku isn't stupid as much as he's a bit naive and too forgiving for his own good. He did outsmart opponents while in battle (eg surprise kamehameha against cell).


Could supes defend against a planet-busting technique like what Frieza did? Difficult to say, given different universes, but from what I've seen I'd think not.

[Neonivek]

Goku outsmarts a lot of opponents.

The best example is King Kai's planet where he finishes the trails much sooner than expected because he outsmarts bobo and Gregory.

Even when his friends do the same trials they do it straight up.

In retrospect, asking whether the antagonists of the franchises could beat each other might've been better to get people out of the fanboyism-mindset

It would certainly be pretty dang hard for Lex to defeat Cell or Buu. Dark Sied against Buu is a question.

Could supes defend against a planet-busting technique like what Frieza did? Difficult to say, given different universes, but from what I've seen I'd think not.

I dunno... Bardock survived it easily enough.

In fact Bardock wasn't even all that hurt by it all things considered and he wasn't even Super Saiyan.

But on a more serious note... Yeah he could block it... But that technique doesn't blow up planets it is made to take out and interfere with the core of a planet causing it to self-destruct. It is one of the two techniques in the show that are specifically designed to take down planets. The two being Deathball (Frieza's move) and the Garlic Gun.