Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[LordBucket]

He also has the lava lightly graze him and give him a serious burn and implies that getting doused in lava will kill him

1) Source that. Nothing in the above video say anything about him being burned. You claim he was seriously burned. So show me. Give me a specific source that we can all look at, not a general 'oh, well it happened during Frieza arc, just trust me on this." And if need be I can pull out my Japanese DVDs and see what he actually said rather than what the dub says.

2) In the above video, he's in plain form, with not even a battle aura up. It's routinely shown that when he goes Super Saiyan, he becomes more resistant to damage.

There's no particular reason to believe that his jump away reaction to lava and commenting that it's hot means he's magically super susceptible to heat for some reason. He did, for example, endure Red Ribbon Army flamethrowers even as a kid, and was unharmed by them apart from losing some clothes.

[Neonivek]

Show me evidence that Goku can survive inside lava.

You had a clip of Goku getting burned by lava. So show me goku walking through lava unharmed.

[Xantalos]

No, it does not-- but it DOES present a continuity problem with the series itself.
Prior to his "owie, it burns!" moment, he has withstood gamut gun bursts from Vegeta that have vaporized whole mountains. The amount of energy in such a blast makes the amount of thermal energy in the lava pale in comparison. This means that the writers of the series dont understand physics, not that goku can be one-shotted by falling into mount doom.

Clearly he has minor reality warping so that things he think would hurt him more actually do hurt him more. Therefore, since he's kinda dense, high-tech stuff isn't as effective against him since he doesn't get that they should be atomizing him.

[Sergarr]

No, it does not-- but it DOES present a continuity problem with the series itself.
Prior to his "owie, it burns!" moment, he has withstood gamut gun bursts from Vegeta that have vaporized whole mountains. The amount of energy in such a blast makes the amount of thermal energy in the lava pale in comparison. This means that the writers of the series dont understand physics, not that goku can be one-shotted by falling into mount doom.

IIRC it was more of a comedic relief moment. Goku have a lot of those, especially involving guns. And needles. Can't forget about needles.

Show me evidence that Goku can survive inside lava.

You had a clip of Goku getting burned by lava. So show me goku walking through lava unharmed.

I have a clip of Goku tanking a planet/sun-busting attack from Beerus, does that count?

[Neonivek]

No, that is kinetic force, not heat.

Well sort of... it is Ki force, not Kinetic Force. The show demonstrated that Ki is not the same as direct force.

For example they can redirect flows of ki but not flows of force as easily.

By the by, when it is needed to I will use a clip of a super powered being "as powerful" As Goku being fried in the sun.

[wierd]

Clearly, you do not understand what thermal energy is.

Thermal energy is diffuse kinetic energy. That is to say, the individual particles of a heated substance move about with more force/higher velocities than do the particles in a colder sample of the same material. 

An attack that is able to convert a mountain directly to gas, by necessity, has more energy in it than is required to convert the same mountain into liquid (lava). 

Additionally, unless "Ki energy" works on a radically different set of physics to accomplish its end results, it must have total energy parity with the energy it induces in materials it interacts with, or the conservation of energy law is broken. (EG, a glowing ball of ki energy must have at least as much energy inside it as it releases as visible light-- It cannot be less.)

It takes an absurd amount of energy to overcome all the van-der-waals forces inside a mountain-- let alone the hydrogen bonds and other high energy states that hold a mountain together.  Significantly more than is found in a small splash of magma.

[LordBucket]

Show me evidence that Goku can survive inside lava.

I assert that Superman is magically super sensitive to me touching him with a #2 pencil, and that if I do, he'll die.  Show me evidence that Superman can survive me poking him with a #2 pencil.

It doesn't work that way. You've made a claim. A very lazy claim, that I had to find the source for because you couldn't. Having looked at the video, it doesn't show what you claim, and now that I'm asking you for evidence of your claim, you're evading that and tryign to turn it around by asking me to prove otherwise.

It doesn't work that way.

You made a claim.

Justify it

You had a clip of Goku getting burned by lava

No, I showed a clip of Goku jumping out of the way and saying it's hot. Nowhere does it show him being burned, yet you're claiming it does, you're claiming it's a "serious" burn and you're claiming that touching lava will kill him. The video does not show these things you're claiming.

Stop making stuff up.

[wierd]

>.>

As far as I know, the ONLY example of a DB character coming into direct contact with lava is from episode 50 of the original DB animation, and such contact does not even manage to damage bulma's panties. Considering how absurdly less powerful bulma is (especially DB bulma) compared to DBZ goku, I think we can conclude that magma is not going to do any permanent/serious harm to him.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

*Snip*

Ki (Chi? I think they mean about the same thing, right?) is just spirit energy, right? I think so, extrapolating that from when Goku was making (of the many times he did) a spirit bomb and asked the citizens of earth to give him some energy, they felt drained, didn't they?
It has been shown that ki shots do give of at least some heat, but only when unfocused, like when Kami/Piccolo faced off against cell (and a ton of other examples) the blast certainly made his (sweat?) on his hand evaporate, but not when they use something that's focused, like Piccolo's little finger beam or Krillens energy saw disc thing, it really seems more like this weird energy that can be freely controlled by whoever is projecting it.
Wait, was it ever explained that it actually turned the mountain into a gas?

[Neonivek]

Goku gets his butt hit by lava during the Frieza arc mind you.

But no the mountain didn't get turned into gas it was just demolished into rubble.

[wierd]

That would still be a significant amount of energy, greatly exceeding the total energy needed to create the geyser of magma that freiza creates in the mentioned scene.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Oh, for sure, I was just trying to figure out if Ki actually worked as if it was just concentrated energy.

[Neonivek]

Oh, for sure, I was just trying to figure out if Ki actually worked as if it was just concentrated energy.

Well remember it is a dramatic series so it breaks quite a few laws of conservation.

That would still be a significant amount of energy, greatly exceeding the total energy needed to create the geyser of magma that freiza creates in the mentioned scene.

In all honestly I am just being unfair since inconsistencies with what Goku can and cannot do is par for the course in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. In some episodes it SEEMS like he can punch through rock with ease but way later he can hardly lift several hundred kilograms (though possibly explained that with Ki goku's strikes have much more force then he can lift)

Not that Goku can survive in Lava mind you... but that is more of an exception since Dabura later uses his fire and I THINK Gohan tanks the hit... or avoids it.

Actually does Dabura hit anyone with his fire attack directly?

[wierd]

While clearly more thought out than what the writers of DBZ would be willing to invest:

If Ki energy did NOT have energy parity (at best!) with other kinds of energy, and yet still be tied to dietary/metabolic energy production (See the many instances where Goku eats buttloads of food, claiming he needs it for his martial arts training)-- then it would be possible for a being in the DBZ universe to utilize Ki energy to achieve infinite energy density.

This is because a tiny amount of Ki energy could catalyze/replace a biological function requiring normal energy, which would then produce even more ki energy than was initially invested.  Since this results in godmode sue, without restraint of any kind, and is such a simple exploit given the nature of the DBZ universe-- We can draw something similar to the fermi paradox with it.  Where are all the godmode sues that have unlimited power?

Such beings would be very bad for the plot (the show has a plot?! It's not just grunting noises!?) and the implications are very disastrous for that universe (byebye second law of thermodynamics!) I think we can pretty much get away with saying that Ki Energy doesnt get a handwave on that.

[Sergarr]

While clearly more thought out than what the writers of DBZ would be willing to invest:

If Ki energy did NOT have energy parity (at best!) with other kinds of energy, and yet still be tied to dietary/metabolic energy production (See the many instances where Goku eats buttloads of food, claiming he needs it for his martial arts training)-- then it would be possible for a being in the DBZ universe to utilize Ki energy to achieve infinite energy density.

This is because a tiny amount of Ki energy could catalyze/replace a biological function requiring normal energy, which would then produce even more ki energy than was initially invested.  Since this results in godmode sue, without restraint of any kind, and is such a simple exploit given the nature of the DBZ universe-- We can draw something similar to the fermi paradox with it.  Where are all the godmode sues that have unlimited power?

Such beings would be very bad for the plot (the show has a plot?! It's not just grunting noises!?) and the implications are very disastrous for that universe (byebye second law of thermodynamics!) I think we can pretty much get away with saying that Ki Energy doesnt get a handwave on that.

You assume that ki energy can be interchanged with a normal biological energy in the organism. That's like saying that our thermal energy can be replaced with an electical one and everything will work out the same as long as the amounts are equal. An absurd statement.