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[Jusal]

Then we were not talking about the same thing at all!

I was refering to the game's playerbase in general, as from my knowledge it hasn't quite settled down yet, making it a little difficult to find players who actually care about such things as roleplay. That's the point I was trying to make. Of course I meant no offence to this particular server (or any other to begin with).

[ January 05, 2008: Message edited by: Jusal ]

[Red Jackard]

Alright then.

It's a bit misleading to judge the game by the entire playerbase. NWN1 had its own share of hack-n-slash PWs; that never prevented people from creating more serious ones.

Also, WoW is a slightly insulting comparison to make; Blizzard has always played lip service to the entire concept, so it doesn't take much to surpass the quality found on their servers. Not only is the atmosphere typically hostile or indifferent, the very mechanics of the game often make roleplaying difficult. It simply is not designed with RP in mind, unlike the NWN series.

[ January 05, 2008: Message edited by: Red Jackard ]

[Jusal]

To be honest I never thought NWN was especially designed that in mind. Even the campaign is impossible to be roleplayed (they just had to throw in NPCs talking to you about camera controls and leveling up, what?). Of course the emotions, gestures and similar things were a nice touch, but why am I unable to walk around without either sneaking or being in constant detection mode?

It's still one of the best games I know for roleplaying purposes, I give it that, even if I'm doubtful they specifically thought about it.

[ January 05, 2008: Message edited by: Jusal ]

[Red Jackard]

Of course it was. It's one of the few games that were - even ignoring all the other factors, the dm client should be an obvious hint. Do you have any experience with the multiplayer aspect of the original? Visit any of the more serious PWs? Play a multiplayer campaign?

What made the original really worthwhile was the user-created content, although the campaign from the two expansions was also enjoyable.

[ January 05, 2008: Message edited by: Red Jackard ]

[Jusal]

Hmm, true. The game was designed light roleplay in mind. In the sense of "Let's go and kill a dragon, dudes" and "Okay you take that longsword +2 and I'll keep the fullplate of fire resistance" but it isn't exactly that meaning of the word what I was thinking about here.

Of course I have experience with the multiplay and I know there are many good roleplaying servers out there. However, there are some things in the game that require a lot of patience and understanding from the players in order to roleplay in a satisfactory way.

As for the user created content: It was user created, NWN left an amount of holes for the players to fill for any deeper roleplay.

[ January 05, 2008: Message edited by: Jusal ]

[Aquillion]

quote:Originally posted by Armok:
<STRONG>HOW IS THIS RELEVANT TO... wait we are int he various nonsense subforum, guess it ain't spam after all then.</STRONG>

THIS POST ISN'T NONSENSICAL ENOUGH!

I demand a refund.

[Red Jackard]

quote:Originally posted by Jusal:
<STRONG>In the sense of "Let's go and kill a dragon, dudes" and "Okay you take that longsword +2 and I'll keep the fullplate of fire resistance" but it isn't exactly that meaning of the word what I was thinking about here.</STRONG>

That sounds more like a complaint with D&D than anything else, where balance depends on a party of four carrying a vast arsenal of magical trinkets.

 :p

[Jusal]

Well, I think the problem here is that we define roleplay differently. To me it means roleplaying or acting as a certain character. Making this kind of playing satisfactory is always largely dependant on the player(s), but if the game or gameworld itself makes it next to impossible there isn't much a player can do except for creating their own content to fix these problems. This is, as I see it, exactly what happened with NWN.

[Red Jackard]

quote:Originally posted by Jusal:
<STRONG>Well, I think the problem here is that we define roleplay differently. To me it means roleplaying or acting as a certain character.</STRONG>

Nope, same here. I did find places tailored for this.

                   

quote:To be honest I never thought NWN was especially designed that in mind.

And we're back to "NWN was designed for roleplaying" - by providing these very tools for players to create and run their own settings. I don't understand where your confusion is coming from here. Does the fact that they are player-made somehow invalidate them, although they are precisely what you were looking for?

How is it possible to compare this to a game like WoW, which offers absolutely zero support for roleplaying? With mods don't even actively enforce their own server policies?

[ January 06, 2008: Message edited by: Red Jackard ]

[Jusal]

NWN has some tools with which the players can create roleplaying content. It does not have the content itself.

It also has some game mechanics that are very hard to explain when roleplaying. For example the game's crafting skills require only gold (and sometimes experience points) to be used, which makes it a little difficult to explain where the materials popped up from or why your character suddenly lost some of their combat experience just because they mixed a potion. And of course, as I said before, the game does not allow your character to walk, or even sit down unless you are using player fixes for this. And then again there is this one thing about your character's ability to carry ten full sets of armor around in his pockets. These are common problems with the genre. I didn't expect NWN to fix them, but they certainly force the player to come up with strangest explanations should they want to roleplay.

And where did I compare NWN to WoW? I mentioned it in a completely different context, as someone I know, who has played both the games, had compared NWN 2's roleplaying difficulties to those troubling the players on WoW's roleplaying servers.

[ January 06, 2008: Message edited by: Jusal ]

[Red Jackard]

quote:Originally posted by Jusal:
<STRONG>It also has some game mechanics that are very hard to explain when roleplaying. For example the game's crafting skills require only gold (and sometimes experience points) to be used, which makes it a little difficult to explain where the materials popped up from or why your character suddenly lost some of their combat experience just because they mixed a potion.</STRONG>

mods that fix this

   

quote:Originally posted by Jusal:
<STRONG>And of course, as I said before, the game does not allow your character to walk, or even sit down unless you are using player fixes for this.</STRONG>

now that is simply untrue - it's called holding down SHIFT. (or turning on search if you are lazy) There is also an emote that comes bundled with the game called "sit on ground." You know, with the rest of the emotes you can access by right clicking on the character.

   

quote:Originally posted by Jusal:
<STRONG>And then again there is this one thing about your character's ability to carry ten full sets of armor around in his pockets.</STRONG>

yeah, although there are mods that help with these sort of problems too - like adding weight to gold pieces.

...

...none of these are truly immersion-breaking problems

[ January 06, 2008: Message edited by: Red Jackard ]

[Jusal]

I was refering to sitting on a chair and does holding down shift not open an array of quickslots?

If these little annoyances are not immersion breaking then what does the game have  in its mechanics that makes superior for roleplaying purposes when compared to the rest?

And what are you getting confused at here? Are you trying to tell me that these custom mods were designed by the developers beforehand? We are talking about if the game was made roleplaying in mind, not if the players fixed it for that purpose.

[ January 07, 2008: Message edited by: Jusal ]

[Red Jackard]

Ugh.

You are no longer worth my time to convince.

[ January 07, 2008: Message edited by: Red Jackard ]

[Jusal]

I'm happy with that. The argument starting taking a little too hostile turn for my liking.

[Serjndestroy]

Piping in my 2 fils here, roleplay servers on NWN2 are pretty good, actually. I've been on ones that require yo to write essays on your character, and award roleplaying experience when playing in dm sessions. Custom dice rolling programs allows for the client to be run exactly like a pen and paper game with a graphical interface, and I personally do not see how anyone looking for DnD can argue with that. Sure, the single player aspect lacks a lot of things, but seriously, it is a modular game, where if you want something improved, be it content or mechanics, YOU CAN IMPROVE IT. How anyone can have a problem with that I do not know...