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[i2amroy]

((Actually, because it's late/early/whatever and I can't think, you only need more RAM if DF uses up to 4 GB, but I can't for the life of me remember if it uses 4 or 2.))

DF uses two but there's a program somewhere out there that pushes the limit up to four GB.(It works for other programs also. but I forgot it's name.)

The name you are looking for is a "Large Address Aware Patch", there's a handful of different ones scattered around the internet. As always I'd like to note that this problem only shows up on Windows, 32-bit Linux/Mac will already give a little over 3GB to 32-bit programs, and 64-bit Linux/Mac will automatically give 32-bit programs a full 4GB of memory to use.

[Reudh]

Geez that's a truly awful cpu, especially for a system that's gonna price out at $1k+ and even worse for a gaming system - it benchmarks even lower than the 10 year old never-top-of-the-line core 2 duo I have on my non-gaming system.  For gaming, at *least* go with a pentium,  say a g3258 for $50-60 and 3x the benchmark performance...

the A4 is a horrifically slow CPU - it's what they slap into low end, $500 laptops - my brother's $480 school laptop runs a A4 with a lower clock speed - 2.0ghz i think?

I mean heck, my laptop that I got for $800 two years ago runs an AMD A8-4500M - not the best A8 out there, but it's a damn sight better than the A4.

[Reelya]

You need to update your specs. DDR4 is the current standard you should be looking at for memory. Try and base your build around a new DDR4 motherboard that supports RAM up to 3200MHz. DDR3 era is near the end of the line so there won't be much room to upgrade from that. You can stick with built-in video, but throw 8GB RAM in there. So, fastest RAM possible then the fastest dual or quad CPU you can afford (look at benchmarks). Per-core benchmarks are the most important for DF. A good motherboard with high specs is the most important. Everything else can be upgraded later on for cheaper.

I notice you said GST? What country are you in?

[Sensei]

You need to update your specs. DDR4 is the current standard you should be looking at for memory. Try and base your build around a new DDR4 motherboard that supports RAM up to 3200MHz. DDR3 era is near the end of the line so there won't be much room to upgrade from that. You can stick with built-in video, but throw 8GB RAM in there. So, fastest RAM possible then the fastest dual or quad CPU you can afford (look at benchmarks). Per-core benchmarks are the most important for DF. A good motherboard with high specs is the most important. Everything else can be upgraded later on for cheaper.

I notice you said GST? What country are you in?

I think this is debatable. DDR4, once you factor in the relevant motherboard, and the relevant CPU, is REALLY expensive. Enough to put it far out of budget, I would think. Sure, future proofing is nice, but it probably would be more cost effective to replace your mobo, CPU and RAM in 2 to 4 years (when prices on the same parts have gone down) than to buy all that crap now. For the time being, yes DDR4 is far faster than DDR3 but no game that I'm aware of will take advantage of that in a measurable way.

[Thief^]

For the time being, yes DDR4 is far faster than DDR3

Not true! Both DDR3 and DDR4 are available in 2133 and 2400 MHz versions, and the DDR3 version is cheaper! Futureproofing doesn't work as an argument either... future releases of higher speed DDR4 will likely require a new motherboard anyway.
At this point it's relatively pointless to invest in DDR4.

[Reelya]

Oh right, I checked prices. I had thought they'd come down more for DDR4 than they had. I can pick up DDR3-2400 for about $200 and the same speed in DDR4 is $300. Well I think the crossover point is months away as it is. That's not a huge gap in computer terms for something that was only release less than 1 year ago.

[Sensei]

Eh, like I said, the painful part isn't the extra hundred spent on RAM, but the x99 motherboards start $200, and and the CPUs for those start at $400. $600 for CPU+Mobo is probably twice what I'd want to spend on a $1000 budget, then after probably $100 on 8GB of DDR4 ram at 2400 Mhz (a speed that defeats the purpose of DDR4 anyway) you only have $300 for a graphics card, case, powersupply, and storage. That just doesn't work.

[Xixity]

[PCPartPicker part list](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/6QGQYJ) / [Price breakdown by merchant](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/6QGQYJ/by_merchant/)

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
**CPU** | [AMD FX-6350 3.9GHz 6-Core Processor](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/amd-cpu-fd6350frhkbox) | $117.98 @ Newegg
**CPU Cooler** | [Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rr212e20pkr2) | $28.95 @ NCIX US
**Thermal Compound** | [Arctic Silver Arctic Alumina Premium Ceramic Polysynthetic 1.75g Thermal Paste](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/arctic-silver-thermal-paste-aa175g) | $4.98 @ OutletPC
**Motherboard** | [MSI 970 GAMING ATX AM3+ Motherboard](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-970gaming) | $99.98 @ OutletPC
**Memory** | [Mushkin Blackline 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 Memory](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/mushkin-memory-997092y) | $73.98 @ Newegg
**Storage** | [V7 Elite 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/v7-internal-hard-drive-vbs3128gr3n) | $72.46 @ Amazon
**Video Card** | [MSI GeForce GTX 960 2GB Video Card](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-video-card-gtx960gaming100me) | $199.99 @ Newegg
**Case** | [Corsair 400R ATX Mid Tower Case](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-case-400r) | $79.99 @ NCIX US
**Power Supply** | [Antec High Current Gamer 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/antec-power-supply-hcg620m) | $71.98 @ Newegg
**Optical Drive** | [Samsung SH-224DB/RSBS DVD/CD Writer](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/samsung-optical-drive-sh224dbrsbs) | $17.79 @ OutletPC
**Operating System** | [Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/microsoft-os-gfc02050) | $86.89 @ OutletPC
 | *Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts* |
 | Total (before mail-in rebates) | $899.97
 | Mail-in rebates | -$45.00
 | **Total** | **$854.97**
 | Generated by [PCPartPicker](http://pcpartpicker.com) 2015-04-17 16:28 EDT-0400 |

You need to update your specs. I notice you said GST? What country are you in?

I'm in Canada. Here's the latest after looking around, and learning a little

[nenjin]

I'll warn you about that EVO Cooler. That thing is HUGE. And kind of a pain in the ass to install right. You probably won't be fooling with the installation but, I would seriously do some mental measurements about whether it will fit that case. Take the depth of the case listed in the spec, subtract the height of the cooler listed on its spec and look at the remainder. If it's 2 inches or less, it may not fit. I bought a Full Tower and I had maybe a couple inches to spare once it was installed.

To note: Aftermarket heat sinks are NOT required unless your processor didn't ship with a cooler of its own (they usually do.) Stock coolers that ship with processors tend to be cheap but adequate. The main reason I buy after market coolers isn't for the cooling: it's because they usually attach to the motherboard more robustly and securely than the standard stock coolers. (Intel's stock cooler uses these plastic tabs to snap it into the motherboard, and I've easily broken them, which caused my heatsink to become unseated while the PC was running. You DO NOT want that to ever happen.)

Also you're getting a 128gig SSD and no other backup drive. That will work, but I guarantee you that you will fill that thing up quickly.

One last note: the version of Windows 7 you're buying is OEM. It's the only kind of Windows 7 you can easily find these days.

OEM stands for "Original Equipment Manufacturer." OEM Operating System licenses are generally intended to be sold to laptop manufacturers.

The reason this matter to you is this: OEM Windows Licenses often evaluate what hardware you have installed. Because laptops rarely if ever change hardware configuration, the OEM license is designed to become invalidated if hardware changes. (So laptop manufacturers can't cheat the license and have to pay for new ones with every new model of laptop they create.)

For a desktop PC user, changing hardware is a thing that happens. So you're essentially buying a copy of Windows that, should you ever change core pieces of hardware in your PC (like your CPU or your graphics card) and try to reinstall, the OEM license may not accept it. You'll basically get a message saying "Hardware changes detected, please contact Microsoft support for a new license." And then you call them on the phone and essentially have to buy a new license for the same install.

There's really no way around this, other than to not buy an OEM license and instead pick up a copy of Windows 8 (which for the time being is still available under a full license.)

[Xixity]

I'll warn you about that EVO Cooler. That thing is HUGE.

Also you're getting a 128gig SSD and no other backup drive. That will work, but I guarantee you that you will fill that thing up quickly.

One last note: the version of Windows 7 you're buying is OEM. It's the only kind of Windows 7 you can easily find these days.

OEM stands for "Original Equipment Manufacturer." OEM Operating System licenses are generally intended to be sold to laptop manufacturers.

Thanks for the warning. I hadn't done ANY measurements.
 I thought I could just run over to the store and pick up a terabyte hdd or an external if it becomes a problem.
Thanks again. I don't expect to make changes for a few years, or ever, but I'll look into price differences. I heard I could upgrade to Windows 10 right away. I never thought it could be a problem

[Donuts]

I have a 212 EVO, and it really is huge. It just barely didn't fit in the case, so I have my lid slightly off. But it's an amazing cooler, and I haven't hit anything above 50-something after installing it.

[nenjin]

Since I didn't mention it, make sure you buy a 64-bit OS. (Windows 8 comes in 64 and 32 bit version.) Most hardware these days should be 64-bit compatible but it never hurts to check your RAM, CPU and GPU for 64-bit compatibility. 32 vs. 64 bit, very generally, is about how much RAM your operating system can recognize. 32 bit locks windows into a max of gigs of memory, so games that require more than that go 64 bit. Things written to be 64 bit will not run on a 32 bit machine. If you have any interest in playing more modern games, you will shoot yourself in the foot with a 32 bit operating system and hardware. DF, however, will run fine in 32 bit

I don't know how much memory DF knows how to address, but if it can be aware of more than 4 gigs, I assume a 64 bit setup and 8 gigs of memory will leave DF with more memory to play with, which is only a good thing the larger and older worlds are. I admit I don't know enough about either DF or bit logic to be sure.

[Xixity]

You people have been great. The things I've learned. I've essentially scrapped that first build post. I'll update when I get the feeling like I've got a more stable plan

[Reelya]

4GBs (for a 32-bit system) is the theoretical amount you can use. But it really can't and you should definitely go for 64-bit Windows if you have 4GB or more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_GB_barrier

In computing, the 3 GB barrier is a limitation of some 32-bit operating systems running on x86 microprocessors. It prevents the operating systems from using more than about 3 GB (3 × 10243 bytes) of main memory (RAM). The exact barrier varies by motherboard and I/O device configuration, particularly the size of video RAM; it may be in the range of 2.75 GB to 3.5 GB. The barrier is not present with a 64-bit processor and 64-bit operating system, or with certain x86 hardware and an operating system such as Linux or certain versions of Windows Server and Mac OS that fully support physical address extension (PAE) mode on x86.

It's because motherboard components like PCI bus and video ram are mapped to memory addresses, so some of the 32-bit 4GB limit needs to be reserved to talk to this hardware. Depending on the board, the amount reserved can be up to 1.8GB. So, with 2GB RAM you won't ever have a problem: half the 32-bits of address are the RAM, and the other half can be used for memory-mapped IO.

But the article says Windows 32-bit has a mode for 36-bit addressing (giving 64GB of usable RAM), but it's turned off by default. It sounds like Microsoft just deliberately keep 32-bit windows nerfed to provide two "tiers" to encourage people to upgrade, thus paying twice for the same thing

... and it looks like people have gone all hacky, to make 32-bit windows use the cool 36-bit mode!
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/windows-and-office/override-the-4gb-memory-barrier-on-32-bit-windows-81-systems/

[Thief^]

I wouldn't recommend forcibly turning it on, it's disabled due to poor driver compatibility. IIRC it's enabled on 32-bit Windows server because the driver signing process for server requires PAE (36-bit) compatibility, but the home OSs didn't so there are a load of MS approved drivers out there that will blue-screen (or work incorrectly) on a PAE (36-bit) enabled system. That article mentions Intel HD graphics as one, for example.

It also still doesn't allow any one app to use more that 2GB of ram (or 3GB if you shift the barrier, but that's blue-screen land too).

In short... just get 64-bit.