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Author Topic: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes of bugs  (Read 7036 times)

SharpKris

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so War for The Overworld just released from early access and i've decided to post this here, since there's
a more then a few DF references in there.
to anyone who liked DKII i'd suggest giving it a go.

trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3is0untjG40

/discuss
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 08:31:28 am by SharpKris »
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Levi

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2015, 06:37:48 pm »

I'm definitely going to pick this up when it goes on sale.  :)  For some reason I thought it wasn't due out for a while, so this is good news!
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lijacote

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2015, 07:52:04 pm »

The game's lovely at its core, but it is definitely not finished yet. I will say that I am disappointed by the state of the release, and dismayed at the darker murmurings on the forums. I hope things will turn out well for this game, since I've been using it as an example of a Kickstarter game that didn't fail spectacularly.
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Me miserable! which way shall I fly
Infinite wrath, and infinite despair?
Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell;
And, in the lowest deep, a lower deep
Still threatening to devour me opens wide,
To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heaven.

nenjin

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2015, 08:02:37 pm »

Heh, there are like five threads for this game, almost none of them over two pages.

I was sorta keeping up with Early Access progress here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=119801.msg3835089#msg3835089

Haven't played in the last two or three major updates. But my impression was, it's basically gotten to where DKII was. The Unlock System is just kind of busy work for pacing the campaign, I didn't find it very enjoyable in a sandbox capacity, obviously. The art has tightened up quite a bit in the last year. There's still some goofy designs that will be forever goofy but I find the game a lot easier to enjoy thematically than from where it started.

A lot of the last year of EA was filling in the different upgrades and continually re-polishing the UI and textures, developing the SP campaign, and a lot of back and forth before getting MP implemented.

It was looking pretty sharp the last time I played it (which was quite a while ago.) I couldn't shake the feeling that the dungeon wasn't really alive still, but I think that was before payday and monster relaxation and sleep was all in and working for release. The nostalgia with DKII is so strong, I'm not entirely sure this game can get out of its shadow to cast its own. But as I was sitting here thinking of what to play, it occurred to me to play this! So I'm going to find out.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 08:21:14 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Zangi

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2015, 09:25:53 pm »

*Insert joke about WftO being 2 years late and its basest concept+website existing years before it showed up on kickstarter in late 2012.*
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Elfeater

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2015, 09:28:35 pm »

*Insert joke about WftO being 2 years late and its basest concept+website existing years before it showed up on kickstarter in late 2012.*
Heh good one
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nenjin

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2015, 10:08:34 pm »

So I find it pleasingly evil sounding and looking now, compared to where it was a lllllllllooooooooooooonnnnnnnngggggggg time ago. Buggy feeling though. A major hero attack on my Dungeon Core caused the game to lock up for....about a 1 minute, and it hitched significantly every time heroes came at my dungeon heart every 30 seconds or so from then on. Tool tips still contain a gross amount of debug information that drowns out any useful information it might contain. The narrator narrates normal game stuff over the SP campaign tutorial which leads to a lot of him repeating himself.

Props to the dialog though, and the minion chatter, it's over the top and amusing as you'd expect and seemingly high quality.

Along with that, the dungeon feels more alive with that than it once did. There's lots of ambient audio and minion chatter. But somehow payday, feeding, relaxing....just seem to get lost in the noise. It leads me to suspect there's some fudging going on there, where needs are met without the requisite walking around. Guys go to a tavern now to get fed by your pig pens, and a giant gun I guess shoots food at them? Efficient but I think they did it to cut down on the amount of time your guys are hung up doing stuff. I have yet to see a conga line to the treasury, or a group of minions actually eating.

Bizarrely, on the trap tutorial level, they give you...pretty much no time or minions to build said traps as the rate it seemed to want, which lead to said hordes of heroes wailing on my dungeon core (which was easily dealt with by just planting my rally flag there, watching my grossly overleveled minions pound them, and lightning striking all the healers. So. Yay traps.) Mostly it's due to the tutorial level design and the scripting, but the tutorial oddly doesn't force you do things a particular way other than to trigger the next part of the script. So like, if their goal was to teach you to build a huge wall of traps to fend off enemies, the tutorial doesn't really do a good job of achieving that. Considering how many tutorials make things idiot proof, it was a little quirky playing one that kinda failed to set itself up to teach you what it wanted to. They tell you to build doors and then hit you with 3 waves of guys coming from 3 different directions, so while you're busy doing what the tutorial said, it's already moving ahead on the expectation you, I dunno, magically conjured 50 doors out of your ass and are ready to lay a fresh round of traps. 

Some of the splash screens and intros to the menus are the ones from beta and EA, and their out of game menus feel kinda clunky still. The game runs smooth as glass otherwise on my system, so it's playable but it shows a lot of odds and ends of an indie team. Particularly the way tool tips are both overloaded with pointless information and lacking in useful information. All the skills in possession mode just list their name on the tool tip, nothing to tell you what they actually do. Nor are there controls explaining any of that anywhere, since there's no control mapping that I've found yet. Nor a place to read about what the skills of your minions are as they level up.

So released, yes, looks pretty, yes, runs well.....yes? Mostly? Still at a beta level of polish as far as the little details go? Yes. Is it Dungeon Keeper? It's as close as we're going to ever get I think, and that's pretty close. I think they have a ways to go on polishing the AI, performance and tying up loose ends, but so far it seems like a pretty solid buy and something I'll pursue the SP campaign in.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 09:48:20 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

SharpKris

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2015, 10:31:35 pm »

well tbh i've never touched the game while it was in EA so as not to spoil myself.
getting the feeling of the game now i see the amount of bugs that need fixing, it might be fun but i'd say it's still a "Beta" level game.
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nenjin

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2015, 12:13:07 am »

Yeah, there are some massive performance issues being introduced by the AI and/or scripts. Just did like Mission 3? Pretty much finished it by bum rushing the Dungeon Core. I decided to retreat my guys and let them rest up and eat, turning off the rally points...and then game just started lagging to holy hell. Narrator shouting that guys can't get to their lairs, that I'm out of food, that my tavern isn't big enough...despite some guys, a mix of normal monsters and beasts, start wandering back and I think...ok. Seems to be working, no idea why it's lagging.

I pan around for a few minutes with it obviously still choking on something, and when I look back I see a big pack of mixed units standing around the enemy dungeon core, not shackled there by a rally flag, despite there being a clear and obvious path out of the enemy dungeon area.

So I flip the rally flags back on and in an instant, back to normal game speed. Using that I directed them back to my area, untoggled them, watched them swarm the tavern and pig pens (which I suspect there are more animations planned for that stuff...I hope anyways. Right now guys just run up to a table, stand there a second, then run off to do something else), then the treasury, then their lairs.

Soooooo yeah. They've got some work to do yet. The campaign does feel very DKII, where the whole thing feels like really long tutorial as it adds a new feature at a time and designs a level around it. Some of the new stuff that wasn't in DKII seems geared toward multiplayer. Like constructs you can throw down anywhere on the map, that act like dynamite or that claim ties in a little radius. There's also artifacts to find in the level and study in your libaries, which give a 1-time bonus when you click off on them. Like a free level or complete all constructs or something. There's also shrines you can claim, that give persistent bonuses like a vision radius around it or faster wall dig speed. It's a little busy at times with all the little new features, but they are some nice touches too.

And I guess MP is not currently working in the release version....heh. The # of times it's been up or down in different builds, I've lost count how often I've seen that "MP coming soon!" message.

Another thing I also don't like is their reliance on an unlimited gold shrine that's been in every level so far. It undercuts any real difficulty to the game or urgency to build right and move quickly. Which, I guess I kinda like that. But gold is essentially meaningless with that around. It may have solved the problem of running out of gold on the map, but it's rendered most economic choices meaningless. It makes me wonder if they found their own game economy broken and so they stuck that in every level to compensate. Or maybe they quit putting them in there after the "tutorial" ends.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 12:21:03 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

gimli

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2015, 05:19:45 am »

I heard that the save function wasn't working in the Steam release [v1.0]. Is that true?  :o

*edit*

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/04/01/dungeon-keeper-remake/2/

One of the biggest stumbling blocks turned out to be a save/load system. Bread and butter for most any PC game, but a serious headache for War for the Overworld. “We got it working, then every single change we made to the game broke it, and it was like urgh. Eventually we decided that we’re not officially supporting it until launch date. Even in the current live build on Steam there is no saving and loading. We’ve now got it so whenever we change something we’re going and testing saving and loading and it’s ok, but to do that for eight months would have been a complete, ridiculous waste of time.”

Wow... :D
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 05:22:15 am by gimli »
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lijacote

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2015, 06:51:00 am »

Jim Sterling did a sterling (I am not sorry) review of the game, with accurate critical comments. I share his feelings.
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Me miserable! which way shall I fly
Infinite wrath, and infinite despair?
Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell;
And, in the lowest deep, a lower deep
Still threatening to devour me opens wide,
To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heaven.

gimli

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2015, 08:03:42 am »

Dungeons 2 is going to be released in a couple of weeks btw. Dungeons 1. was far from being perfect [according to the reviews], but perhaps they managed to fix the biggest problems for part 2. I'm going to wait for some reviews for that game as well, before even thinking about buying a DK clone. WotU feels like a beta product according to the reviews. [Crashes, memory leaks, bugs etc.]
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Mech#4

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2015, 08:13:17 am »

Dungeons 2 is going to be released in a couple of weeks btw. Dungeons 1. was far from being perfect [according to the reviews], but perhaps they managed to fix the biggest problems for part 2. I'm going to wait for some reviews for that game as well, before even thinking about buying a DK clone. WotU feels like a beta product according to the reviews. [Crashes, memory leaks, bugs etc.]

"Dungeons 1" was... hmm. The basic design of the game was fine and the ideas they had were good but there was never any real moments of epicness. The concept of running a dungeon like a theme park is certainly an interesting one but it lacked the level of detail and control that makes games like "Rollercoaster Tycoon" fun. You could place niceties, skulls on spikes and so on around but there was no reason to besides aesthetics.

At least, I think that's how the game played. I haven't tried it since it came out. I don't think I found it buggy just kind of empty of things besides base mechanics.
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gimli

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Re: War for the Overworld. out of early access and menaces with spikes
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2015, 08:37:01 am »

Yeah, I decided not to buy Dungeons 1. after reading reviews like this one on Gamespot.

PS. Wow, I haven't noticed that Dungeons 2. will cost 44.99€ like an AAA product. They better make it good in that case...lol.  :o
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Neonivek

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Well Nenjin there was unlimited gold even without Gem Deposits in the original Dungeon Keeper 2

It was just that you earned it at a MUCH slower rate (you needed casinos or else you were going to run out)

But then again... Gem Deposits were much slower then gold you found, were often secrets on the stage, and a lot of stages didn't have them or wouldn't have been aided with them.
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