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[Dorsidwarf]

I have never been scum with anyone in this group, so I don't have any preferences right now. I would probably pick someone with experience.

I didn't ask what type of person or what class of person you'd pick, OSG.

[roo]

Tea
I want some.

Osg you can wait and see :p.

dwarf I wouldn't say noncommittal just the over the top hyperagressiveness that has gotten me in trouble. Didn't think people are so sensitive but meh. also a lot of people are noncommittal here. And I think my style tickled some peoples fancy I am gonna turn it down tho and see what happens.

[Tea]

Funny that I got asked the same question twice when I kinda already answered in my signups post. I have played IRC mafia but haven't played forum mafia before. Having the time to think through what I post and knowing that everyone else does too is going to take getting used to.

I'm surprised to see so few people voting so far. Are these survey questions normal, or is Dorsidwaf copying the first guy? I like Dorsidwaf's questions better than origamiscienceguy's because more of origami's seem to be filler questions with no purpose, and the question to playergamer could be rolefishing. Not that knowing which alignment, and in some cases role, people prefer isn't a useful thing, it is, it just seems weirder in this context where everyone in the game has the same frame of reference and the scum can use it against you. I think it would've been better to ask about alignment over role if that was what you were going for though.

I do not understand why Doridswaf seems so grumpy in his latest post and I also find that a bit weird. Does it really matter that he didn't give a specific name?

originalscienceguy

Since there are few but very powerful town roles it doesn't seem like a good idea to massclaim today, but it might be a good idea to do a 'if i am the cop i got xxx result' claim tomorrow? I don't know if those things are normal here though.

[Tea]

It is also weird having to wait for responses.

[origamiscienceguy]

Yes, forum mafia does take some getting used to. The first day or so is usually filled up with people asking questions to get the conversations started and sometimes adding a vote to pressure people into answering.

I personally don't like voting before I know any information, but everyone is different. My "filler questions" were just trying to get some conversation going.

I have never been scum with anyone in this group, so I don't have any preferences right now. I would probably pick someone with experience.

I didn't ask what type of person or what class of person you'd pick, OSG.

Sorry about that.

In this game, the person I have played the most with is actually roo, and I definitely think being mafia together would be !!fun!! even if it won't work out that well. I also like 4mask's gameplay, so that is also who i'd pick.

I'd pick 4mask if I was playing to win, and roo if I was playing to have fun, which I am at this moment.

originalscienceguy

I'm origamiscienceguy by the way. You can call me OSG if you want.

[4maskwolf]

Alright everyone, this is my IC voice.  Everything I say in italics in this game is pure, unfiltered advice to the new players.  If I make any assumptions as to alignment in italicized text it is theoretical only, although I may fail to specify in the moment.  You can trust that anything I say in italics is said with the best of intentions and irrespective of my alignment, although it is up to you what of my words you take to heart and what you decide is not for you.

I would like to start by informing everyone that my playstyle is NOT the playstyle of Bay12 Mafia as a whole.  In more complicated setups, I typically run a gambit-heavy playstyle focused around disrupting other people's plans with complicated, constantly-evolving gambits.  However, for this game, I will attempt to tone down my disruptiveness and nuisance-making that is traditional of my playstyle.

Persus13 and I will be your IC's for this game.  It is our job to give you advice on how to play the game in accordance with our understanding of the game.  Remember, however, that we are also your fellow players, and have an equal chance of being mafia any given one of you does.  ONLY the things that we say in IC text can be taken at face value, but I generally play a more honest game with new players.

If you have any questions about the game, about how we think to play, please ask.  There are many ways to play the game, and part of the reason I'm here is to provide an alternative way to go about playing.

origamiscienceguy: Just going by previous statistics, probably scum.

Dorsidwarf: Because it's too much fun, that's why.  Also because I get bored.

When you play this game, remember that this is one of the hardest setups for town outside of bastard mods and some of Mephansteras's setups.  Without reliable power role support, the town is forced to go on gut alone, and particularly in beginner games this is incredibly unreliable.  If you are lynched as town or scum, don't worry about it too much, it probably just means you made a silly mistake that in most other games would be overlooked or moved on from.  D1 in particular is a dicey day: without any real information to go on, the town lynch is essentially who had a mistype or slip of the tongue close to the end of the day.  If you are lynched D1, don't worry too much about it or think that means you are a bad player: it just means that you got unlucky, essentially.

Tea: I'm going to get to your post in a moment, and I'll try to answer all of the questions and implied questions.

[4maskwolf]

Funny that I got asked the same question twice when I kinda already answered in my signups post. I have played IRC mafia but haven't played forum mafia before. Having the time to think through what I post and knowing that everyone else does too is going to take getting used to.

I'm surprised to see so few people voting so far. Are these survey questions normal, or is Dorsidwaf copying the first guy?

Survey questions of a kind are fairly normal here, as they provide a small base of information to go off of if done legitimately.  However, so many of the veterans (such as myself) either don't bother to do them or don't do them with intent to discern that more complicated games often don't have it.  The "voting in first post" has been fading out of the B12 meta over time, it used to be far more common than it is today to the point where, due to the long days and it's prevelance, voting in and of itself lost its impact as a startle tactic.

I like Dorsidwaf's questions better than origamiscienceguy's because more of origami's seem to be filler questions with no purpose, and the question to playergamer could be rolefishing.

Observations like the rolefishing one are the bread and butter of mafia games, as they provide both a frame of reference for other players and a basis on which to place our eventual reads.  In regards to filler questions, it is very difficult to forumlate meaningful questions for even a subset of players every game, but I generally don't ask them at all rather than asking pointless ones.  OSG: I'm not judging your questions, I'm talking about filler questions as a concept.

Not that knowing which alignment, and in some cases role, people prefer isn't a useful thing, it is, it just seems weirder in this context where everyone in the game has the same frame of reference and the scum can use it against you. I think it would've been better to ask about alignment over role if that was what you were going for though.

The preferred alignment and preferred role questions are perhaps the most ubiquitous of RQS (Random Questioning Stage), because they are least have game relation despite having little relevance to the gameplay as a whole.  Over time, perhaps, knowledge of a player's meta can allow more educated guesses based on their preferences, but in such an early game they tend to serve as filler questions.

I do not understand why Doridswaf seems so grumpy in his latest post and I also find that a bit weird. Does it really matter that he didn't give a specific name?

I don't want to speak for Dorsidwarf, but one of the more (read: at all) reliable of the scumtells of the Bay12 meta is intentional vagueness and obfuscation.  However, you are right in a sense: generally obfuscation on RQS questions in basic games is more due to misunderstanding the question as opposed to active malice.

originalscienceguy

While a standalone vote can be a useful tool under certain circumstances, general Bay12 meta dictates that one should ask questions or drive home a point against them when voting.  Beyond D1, it is indeed generally considered scummy to vote without rationale or any way of trying to find new information.

Since there are few but very powerful town roles it doesn't seem like a good idea to massclaim today, but it might be a good idea to do a 'if i am the cop i got xxx result' claim tomorrow? I don't know if those things are normal here though.

It's not normal here, certainly, but there's a time to try everything, particularly in a beginner game.


Tea: please explain what you mean by that last quote there, the one about "if I am a cop".

[Shakerag]

originalscienceguy

While we should all strive to get players' names correct so as to avoid confusion, this one is not terribly ambiguous so I'll let it slide this time. 


Vote count:

• 4maskwolf -
• Dani -
• Dorsidwarf -
• Illgeo -
• origamiscienceguy - Tea
• Persus13 -
• Playergamer -
• roo -
• Tea - roo

Not voting:  4maskwolf, Dani, Dorsidwarf, Illgeo, origamiscienceguy, Persus13, Playergamer

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, April 17th.

[Tea]

The strategy I was talking about isn't one that I haven't used a lot because in the few setups I have played where cops have guaranteed sanity, there are often doctors so cops can afford to be more open about their results. It mostly gets used in dethy where everyone is a cop of a different sanity (it's like a logic puzzle) and the mafia has to give a fake cop result to try to blend in. But if we did do it, tomorrow everyone would give a fake cop result (and the cop, if there is one, would give their real one.) The purpose being that if the cop dies then we know for sure what they know if they die before they claim, and the problem being that the mafia know who is town and who is mafia and so could better narrow down who the cop is. So it would be something everyone would have to agree to - and we do it by countdowns on IRC so that scum can't use other people's claims to their advantage.

Thanks for your answers in your IC voice, but I am curious about what your actual opinions on the thread are as a player, too. Otherwise I am not sure how we are supposed to figure out if the ICs are mafia.

I explained in my post why so far origamiscienceguy is the most scummy...that is my rationale. Even if I hadn't, though, I think there can be value to voting people without giving reasons so I am not sure I understand why that is considered alignment-related.

It didn't seem to me like origamiscienceguy was being intentionally vague in that answer as he did give information about what he would be looking for in a partner, but I would like to know why Dorsidwarf was being grumpy because that would help me understand his thought processes.

[Persus13]

I've got to leave for a rehearsal soon (I'll probably post in a few other threads after this though), but I promise that I'll be working on a post here in the next three hours. One sad habit of mine is I tend to be fairly inactive recently, but when I do post it tends to be a fair bit of content.

[Dorsidwarf]

Advice in general

Filthy lies

Quote

or
 Scumbag:
bold

the person you're answering to - it gets immensely confusing later on if you don't say who you're replying to.

[4maskwolf]

The strategy I was talking about isn't one that I haven't used a lot because in the few setups I have played where cops have guaranteed sanity, there are often doctors so cops can afford to be more open about their results. It mostly gets used in dethy where everyone is a cop of a different sanity (it's like a logic puzzle) and the mafia has to give a fake cop result to try to blend in. But if we did do it, tomorrow everyone would give a fake cop result (and the cop, if there is one, would give their real one.) The purpose being that if the cop dies then we know for sure what they know if they die before they claim, and the problem being that the mafia know who is town and who is mafia and so could better narrow down who the cop is. So it would be something everyone would have to agree to - and we do it by countdowns on IRC so that scum can't use other people's claims to their advantage.

Yeah, that's the strategy I was thinking of.

Thanks for your answers in your IC voice, but I am curious about what your actual opinions on the thread are as a player, too. Otherwise I am not sure how we are supposed to figure out if the ICs are mafia.

I can't say there's all that much to go off of yet, but I'll try to keep in mind to moderate my use of IC advice with player commentary in the future.

I explained in my post why so far origamiscienceguy is the most scummy...that is my rationale.

If the commentary and the vote are separated within the post by another block of text talking about something else, players will often miss the direct connections between them.  Not a commentary on your playstyle, just something to keep in mind in the future.

Even if I hadn't, though, I think there can be value to voting people without giving reasons so I am not sure I understand why that is considered alignment-related.

One of the main differences between this and IRC mafia is the pace at which it moves, as you have no doubt noticed.  Not only does mafia here go slower, but votes are a relatively impermanent thing.  Someone voting for you now could place three or more different votes before day end.  This, in turn, leads to even relatively new players (OSG has I believe five or six completed games under his belt) being relatively unfazed by an early-day vote, making the entire purpose of the vote (pressure) a moot point.  Thus, seemingly unsupported votes are generally viewed with suspicion, particularly when they are placed on people who already have one or more people voting for them (not that you did this, just for future reference).
Dropping out of IC voice for a moment, it usually takes 3 or more votes in early game before I start to feel any large amount of pressure, although later in the game or in small games like this sometimes two will suffice.  Individual pressure votes have really become more of a formality on these forums, at least from my viewpoint.  Perhaps Persus13 sees it differently, and that's why there are two ICs.

It didn't seem to me like origamiscienceguy was being intentionally vague in that answer as he did give information about what he would be looking for in a partner, but I would like to know why Dorsidwarf was being grumpy because that would help me understand his thought processes.

Dorsidwarf: Care to answer the bolded part?


Everyone except Tea: What do you think of Tea's suggestion about the cop thing?

Tea: in bringing up that strategy, did it occur to you that there is only a 2/3 chance that we have a cop?  Does that change your mind about the plan?  What should the cop do if we do follow that plan and they get roleblocked by the jailkeeper one night?

[origamiscienceguy]

It sounds like follow-the-cop could start and ruin the game for the scum.

[4maskwolf]

It sounds like follow-the-cop could start and ruin the game for the scum.

I'm not sure you understand what follow-the-cop means.  Follow the cop is a strategy where the cop claims on D1 and a hidden doctor heals them every night.  The use of a jailkeeper and the uncertain format are both intended to keep that from happening in this game, since a jailkeeper would also roleblock.  Cop claiming would certainly WIFOM the scum, but without the knowledge of the presence of a jailkeeper it would be risky.

I've got to leave for a rehearsal soon (I'll probably post in a few other threads after this though), but I promise that I'll be working on a post here in the next three hours. One sad habit of mine is I tend to be fairly inactive recently, but when I do post it tends to be a fair bit of content.

I feel you there, bud.  While I'm still more active most people, my activity level is certainly lower than what it used to be.

[Persus13]

4mask covered the majority of the standard IC starting stuff in his post, and everything you assume he says in an IC voice in that post applies to me as well. Other than the fact I will use IC voice much less than he probably will.

Persus13: How long does it take the bread you normally eat to get moldy?

Well, considering I eat it, it doesn't get mouldy. Serious answer, over a week, less than that I has fruit or something in it.

Tea
I want some.

Osg you can wait and see :p.

dwarf I wouldn't say noncommittal just the over the top hyperagressiveness that has gotten me in trouble. Didn't think people are so sensitive but meh. also a lot of people are noncommittal here. And I think my style tickled some peoples fancy I am gonna turn it down tho and see what happens.

Using quotes is important. I have no idea what you are referring to in this post and that hinders our ability to get a read on you. Please consider using quotes.

I'm surprised to see so few people voting so far. Are these survey questions normal, or is Dorsidwaf copying the first guy? I like Dorsidwaf's questions better than origamiscienceguy's because more of origami's seem to be filler questions with no purpose, and the question to playergamer could be rolefishing.

Questions to start off with is normal. It gets conversations going. And asking someone what role they like isn't really rolefishing. People do tend to vote early on, but usually its attached to some sort of question.

I think it would've been better to ask about alignment over role if that was what you were going for though.

Sometimes people do ask. Out of curiosity, what is your favorite alignment?

Since there are few but very powerful town roles it doesn't seem like a good idea to massclaim today, but it might be a good idea to do a 'if i am the cop i got xxx result' claim tomorrow? I don't know if those things are normal here though.

Massclaim is a terrible idea, yes. Cop only should claim if they have a scum result or are about to be lynched. Jailkeeper should only claim if they are about to be lynched or they've been blocking the only scum for a while.

roo Do you feel like you learned anything from being day-killed in GBU?
Illgeo, Dani:Prior mafia experience, what was it? How confident do you feel in your alignment's chances of winning?