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[Retropunch]

Also, whenever a companion interrupts dialogue, nobody even acknowledges his existence. I'm not sure of this but in BG/2 I think usually at least the NPC would do some sort of offhanded dismissing remark.

I noticed this, and I think it's just another example of how little has been done with the companions compared to the other games. I know BG/2 had this a lot, especially with certain combinations. I just don't get how they didn't realise this is pretty much the biggest part of the game (although don't get me wrong, I love being able to hire if needs be). I mean, think how famous Boo is!!

Still, it's a fantastic game all in, and I'm really enjoying it.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Apparently the patch is headed out tomorrow, which is good because I'm worried I'm enjoying making characters more than I should, and I'm running out of characters to make.

In an unrelated note, I don't think I agree with the 'pump up might/intellect in all classes' meta.
Taking the rogue I just made as an example, I'm rolling 13m 5c 18d 16p 11i 15r.
Now, I could free up 5 points from the others and buff might to 18.
But what would I get?
15% more damage, 10 fortitude, and an orlan that can push down stone walls with his bare hands.
And what do I lose? Stats & checks that fit a rogue much, much better.
15% isn't something to sneeze at, but it isn't the best thing since sliced bread either.
I'd rather build a rogue that plays like a rogue.
Anyone agree?

[Zireael]

I agree

What is the patch supposed to fix?

[umiman]

https://forums.obsidian.net/blog/7/entry-179-patch-notes-103/

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

These are the tentative patch notes for the upcoming patch 1.03 release. These may change before it is finally released. This patch is currently in test, and will be released as soon as is possible. Thank you everyone for your patience with us!

"Big Ticket" Items

    Bears and Cats can now be equipped with hats. This is most likely not a joke... but might be a joke.
    Double-clicking to equip items was causing passive abilities to get removed from the character. This has been fixed and we were able to retroactively fix the problem for people that have already run into the issue. If you open your saved game in the latest patch, your characters will be repaired.
    Fixed a problem where attributes on characters could permanently increase by equipping certain items. This will also retroactively fix the problem in saved games that have characters with this issue.
    The crash in Raedric's Hold has been fixed.
    Fixed the looping audio sounds that can occur if you play with minimized tooltips.
    Previously Wizard summoned items could persist after the spell's duration. This has been fixed and it will also retroactively fix the problem in saved games that have characters with this issue.
    The items Drinking Horn of Moderation and Talisman of the Unconquerable were causing Ciphers to permanently lower their amount of focus gain. We've included a fix to retroactively resolve the issue on Ciphers but the effect is still on the items. Unfortunately the fix will not fix the broken effect on those items, so you'll need to keep those items unequipped until the next patch. If you do equip them, perform a Save/Load to fix your Cipher.

Features

    Added graphics setting to toggle antialiasing levels. This can improve performance on lower end machines when disabled.
    Added pro tips to the Glossary.
    Many new icons for items.
    Added new voice set reactivity for lockpick, poison, enemy spotted in stealth, spell failure, death, immobilized, and completed task.
    Added indicators on the loot screen when looting crafting and quest items.
    Party can now use lockpicks that are in the Stash.
    You can now cast AoEs on party member portraits and the spell will be targeted at the companion's location.

Balance

    Monk unarmed attack buffed by 1 point at the top end.
    Arbalest damage has been lowered.
    Fast melee weapons do slightly more damage.
    Slight bump to sabre damage.
    Tuned down Mind Blades.
    Tuned ranges of many Wizard spells to be higher.
    Slicken spell is now a single hit AoE.
    Chill Fog is now a friend or foe spell.
    Curse of Blackened Sight is now foe only.
    Changed reload speed multiplier from 2 to 1.2 for Sure-Handed Ila.
    Fixed the price on Seal of Faith.
    Adjusted price on figurines.
    Adjusted price on rings.
    Tuned up the Goldrot Chew.
    Reduced the penalties for Bonded Grief.
    Tuned up Bulwark of the Elements.
    Modified attributes of companions and Itumaak.
    Raised the bonus for having fewer than six party members from 5% per character under the limit to 10% per character under the limit.
    Added cooldown to NPC Rogue's Escape ability usage so they won't use it back to back.
    Rebalanced fight difficulty and spell selection for the Old Watcher.
    Lowered the scale of the Defiance Bay reputation by 15%.
    Beloved Spirits adds 0.4 Endurance to Ancient Memory instead of 2.
    Changed duration of the Flagellant's Path defense penalty.
    Adjustments to the Mantle of the Dying Boar.
    Reduced the price of the Brighthollow Hearth and Courtyard Pool.
    Heart of Fury will now apply to all damage types.
    Tuned damage on Brilliant Radiance down.

Systems

    Fixed issue with Wizard's summoned magical items getting stuck after save and load. Wizards will be restored to a proper state after loading a game.
    Changed one of the fatigue status effects to not end with combat.
    Fixed save game issues with spells and abilities that place down traps.
    Fixed issue to prevent Ciphers from casting abilities without the required Focus.
    Restored modal flag for Reckless Assault.
    Set Transcendent Suffering to not be combat only.
    Fixed duration issue with Plague of Insects.
    Fixed companion audio triggers for some status effects.
    Hunting Bows had the wrong speed descriptor. They are now listed as Fast.
    Character Hit Autopause option should be working as intended.
    You can now close the Grimoire and Chant UI with a hotkey.
    Fixed issue with summoning magic items while unarmed.
    Fixed delay issue on Knockdown.
    Fixed a few issues with Dominate and Charm spells.
    Fixed a bad item mod on the Ring of Protection.
    Fixed issue with the Terrible weapon mod.
    Changed bad data in ranger summons.
    Made Takedown to be consistent with Knockdown.
    Fixed multiplier on Blooded.
    Summoned weapons will be removed when Spiritshifting.
    Fixed issue with bouncing reflected melee attacks.
    Party members will no longer switch to different weapons after being Charmed or Dominated.
    Ancient Memory is now Ally only.
    A summoned weapon will not unequip the grimoire.
    Fixed Spellstriking mod.
    Fixed trigger count issue with the Prone reduction mod.
    DOT spells should clean up properly when combat ends.
    Fixed Deflection +10 mod.
    All Exhortations are now combat only.
    Only play weapon ineffective VO if the attack is hostile.
    Aggrandizing Radiance will now last until combat ends.
    Holy Radiance is now combat only.
    Carnage now works better.

Quests

    Fixed issues with factions and super friend quests with Lady Webb's dialogue.
    Adjusted trigger in front of the Salty Mast to fix a possible way to skip a required cutscene.
    Fixed issue with the Winds of Steel quest line.
    Fixed a trigger outside the First Fires Keep that could have been avoided.
    Many fixes to music, audio, and VFX to a scene near the end of the game.
    The prybar should now display the correct image in the Raedric's Hold moat scripted interaction.
    Changed faction on the Hall of Warrior's containers.
    Fixed scripted music for the forge knight combats in the keep.
    Visual effects in the introduction cutscene should now be triggered properly.
    Fixed conversation of the guards in Raedric's Hold to not repeat.
    Added cape and armor to the loot for the Fampyr boss.
    Fix to Osrya's starting timer not being attached to the trigger in the area.

UI

    Fixed sound issue when collapsing the tutorial UI.
    Fixed issue with double clicking items to equip. This is a retroactive fix and will restore characters with proper stats.
    Fixed issue where camping supplies were disappearing when added to Stash.
    Cage Cursor setting should not turn off after loading a scene or cutscene and is now on by default.
    Fixed cropping on a few portraits.
    Fixed issue with highlighting dead bodies and containers in the fog of war.
    Fixed item stacking issue that was stacking items inappropriately.
    Reduced the intensity of the explored fog of war on the area map, and fixed an issue where the shadow layer was causing the area map to be darker than it should be.
    Small UI updates to the journal screen.
    Reworked the enchanting UI to work better with multiple lines.
    Fixed UI sorting issue in store.
    Fixed UI sorting in crafting menu.
    Fixes to Capitular glyphs in end game slides.
    Fixed issue with stronghold alert widgets not hiding properly.
    Fixed an issue with weapon mods were incorrectly being displayed in some cases.
    Drag select should work properly when starting the drag over an enemy.
    Fixed a few issues with drag select and formation rotation causing issues when the mouse goes over UI elements.
    Fixed some control issues with holding down keys.
    Shot on the Run recovery value should be now displayed correctly.
    Fixed issues to how the HUD fades out during conversations.
    When the party receives or loses items, those log messages now go to both logs.
    Cleaned up the character sheet formatting and made more items clickable.
    Store item names can now take up two lines.
    Spells now show DT bypass in the description.
    Consumables now show per-Rest and per-Encounter usage limitations.

Other Fixes

    Fixed stats issue with saving and loading on the same map where a companion is found. This is a retroactive fix and will restore companions and characters to the proper state.
    Fixed issues with save games in Raedric's Hold, causing the game to not function correctly or freeze.
    Ranger Animal Companions should not disappear anymore and broken animals will be restored after loading and saving the game.
    Fixed possible issues with disappearing items and weapons.
    Minor fixes to a few select voice over lines.
    Fixed size issues with equipped capes on Godlike characters.
    Changed Explorer achievement to check for 152 maps rather than 160.
    Fixed many issues where combat would not end properly.
    Updated credits with more backer names.
    Updated paperdoll level up lighting.
    Scripted music should now be restored properly after loading a game.
    Updated Temple of Eothas render.
    Fixed some rendering issues with Fog of War on some areas.
    Fixed sounds on movie that plays near end of game.
    Reduced antelope feet sliding.
    Fixed issue with weapon caching causing issues when weapons are swapped.
    Interstitial music no longer loops.
    Fixed issue where party members could take damage in cutscenes.
    Fixed voice cues during looting for full inventory.
    Fixed transparency on ghost characters.
    Fixed issues with cutscene pathfinding if the game's process is halted.
    Fixed issue with Expert mode settings getting saved improperly.
    Fixed issue where characters were not properly stopping at the last waypoint of their path.
    Adjusted Skuldr scream vocals.
    We now handle some edge cases in resolution management on some hardware configurations.
    Fixed issue with the party member Knockout achievement not reporting the correct numbers.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

So I've finished the game after 39 hours. This was taking the game extremely slow, completing as many quests as possible and even leaving the game idle occasionally.

The game clearly ran out of something starting the third chapter. Whether it was time, money, dedication or a combination of all three I found the game to drag on and lack solid direction. Combat was the clearest indication of this with enemies being recycled constantly and the difficulty dropping off a cliff. I killed the last boss in a single volley from my party.

The ending was rather disappointing as well. It took an interesting twist which would have major consequences for the world but the ending just leads you to a Deus Ex styled magical box where you choose the ending you want yet almost completely disregards that big twist. The twist was by far one of the more engaging philosophical questions in the game and it's really disheartening to see it lead nowhere.

All in all it's a good game, far from the masterpiece I've seen some reviewers call it, but it can still stand on it's own feet. I think the game really needs a couple decent expansion packs (especially for that horrid fortress mini-game and a companion expansion) before it's potential can truly be reached.
It is saddening to see that even after 10 years there hasn't be a worthy usurper to the throne of the Dead Three Infinity Engine Trio and even more saddening to see how close PoE gets but ultimately fails to reach.

[gimli]

All in all it's a good game, far from the masterpiece

I've spent like 10-12h on the game so far, but you are absolutely right. [I am going to restart with a new party after 1.03] It's a decent RPG [one of the best which have been released in the last years], but it's "not a BG II.", if you know what I mean...but again BG II. was a masterpiece, it's #2 on the list of my all time favourite RPGs. [ToEE with the CoE modpack is the #1.]

[Biowraith]

I completed it yesterday evening after 32 hours of play (and a separate 22 hour 'false start' that I used to get to grips with the classes, mechanics, etc).  I didn't take it slow, but I did do every side quest I could (well, until shortly into Act 3 when I stopped bothering)

Overall I'd agree with the common sentiment - it's a good game and I really enjoyed it, but it's definitely flawed and doesn't surpass the Baldur's Gate series (although I'm not sure how much nostalgia plays into that for me).

My somewhat jumbled thoughts on my experience:

I generally liked the implementation of the classes, although I would have liked to see a bit more in the way of class traits to pick at levelup and maybe a bit more impact from the generic traits as I didn't find there to be the big differences in how you built a class that they cited - I found it hard to really notice whether taking e.g. +10 Will made much difference and either way it's one of a bunch of pretty boring options.  More traits that give you new options or specializations please (to be honest I have this criticism of most crpgs, so it's maybe just me).  Somewhat related to that I'd have liked to see more 'per encounter' abilities, especially for Druid, Wizard and Priest to supplement their the traditional spellcasting limitations.

Both the Stronghold and the crafting system could really have done with being fleshed out a bit more.  You really don't get anything out of building up the Stronghold; indeed, you spend more on it than you gain, not that gold's an issue after the early game.  Meanwhile with the crafting I was really expecting to find new recipes out in the field and have a slightly wider range of stuff I could add to my gear with it.  I suppose it's tough to balance that so that finding items in the field isn't trivialised by what you can craft and vice versa, but I found the crafting as it was here to be pretty mediocre.

I generally enjoyed the companions personalities, although their quests were pretty lacklustre and as has been discussed there should have been more of them - at least one of each class.  I also found it a little jarring when they'd interject during a conversation and the NPC we were talking to wouldn't acknowledge what they'd said at all.  And while previous systems of party member attitudes were pretty crude, I found myself missing them somewhat here where they seemed largely oblivious to how you acted (including if they made a request or suggestion and you went the other way).

The story seemed mostly pretty standard and fairly predictable PC fantasy rpg fare, although I agree the big twist was fairly interesting.  But I agree on the choose-your-ending part, even moreso since my choice barely seemed to register in the post-game summaries;

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I chose to help Woedican for the promised favoured one status cos my character was a power hungry asshole, but that wasn't mentioned once in the commentary afterwards.

On the third chapter being lacking, for me a big part of that was I'd hit max level by then and had my gear about as good as it was going to get, which takes away a lot of the motivation to run further quests outside of the main story or to further explore areas along the way (oh, your expedition needs help against the Glanwossnames?  I really don't care at this point - doesn't sound terribly interesting and I don't need more gold and trinkets).


But yeah, despite my gripes it was still a very good game and I'll definitely be playing through again at least once.  I'd definitely recommend it to anyone that enjoyed the Infinity Engine games, just with the proviso that it's not going to be taking the crown.

[Zireael]

Fie on you, gimli, you made me google CoE ToEE and now I'm lost to the world so many delicious d20 ideas...

[pondicherry]

Fie on you, gimli, you made me google CoE ToEE and now I'm lost to the world so many delicious d20 ideas...

Same here 

[Baijiu]

Yeah, ToEE doesn't get as much love as it should. Amazing game, but the crashes. Anyone that's interested in the game beware, your game WILL crash and it will crash a lot which will sometimes corrupt your savegames.

[thegoatgod_pan]

This talk of ToEE intrigues me, since I got that game when it came out, played it for about 4 hours before yet another game breaking crash made me forget it for good. It also felt absolutely indifferent to your choices, just another dungeon crawler etc. Is it truly worth coming back to?

I do agree with everyone: Pillars is no Baldur's gate, but in all honesty I think we do have our nostalgia glasses on.

Bg1 was a giant, unbalanced mess. You had to crawl over every area to find some key quests, which meant endless random encounters. Some areas had no quests (e.g. the gibberling area, until extended edition) Every encounter was deadly, everything one-shot your pc (especially caster pcs) for the first few levels. The first assassin at the inn was a level 4 wizard: he could insta-kill your party by casting horror and then casting magic missile at you once (twice if you are a fighting class).  The absolute only way to deal with him was to reload, sneak Imoen to backstab him/and/or attack him as soon as he is done talking. Metagaming was mandatory, not optional. Many encounters were similar (e.g. Silke fight=hit Silke constantly so she can't cast lightning bolt and kill us all)

This held until your clerics hit level 5 and gained the ability to summon skeletons and then every encounter was trivial, because you would just send a giant army of skellies along with a scout to kill anything. There were about 20 more companions than you would ever need (how many single-class thieves do you really ever need?) and most of them had very little to say/do: e.g. once you freed Branwen from being a stone statue, it isn't like there was a follow up quest: that was it!  Jaheira and Khaleid had no quest besides "go to Nashkel", same with Xzar and Montaron, etc. etc.


Bg2 tightened the encounters, made the npcs distinct and memorable and added inter-companion chatter than encouraged me to try new combinations. However, this depth occassionally lead to madness too: e.g. I remember reloading a playthrough to five hours before, because Keldorn and Viconia decided to fight to the death just into Spellhold. Naturally Keldorn and his +5 sword of brokenness won: yay for dealing with the Underdark without a cleric. Oh, and when Haer'dalis decided to duel me to the death because I was involved with Aerie, that was also poorly thought out.

 It's other faults were more reliant on the flaws of Ad&D: e.g. strength being useless since Gauntlets of ogre power and belts of giant strength. Sooo many dumps stats (charisma lowers prices by increasing reputation, which has a cap, which you easily hit ), if you aren't a cleric: wis 3 is not obstacle, if you want to cast wish later, just drink the potion of 18 wis first, if you aren't a wizard Int 3 is no obstacle and so on.

Let us not forget that both games let you roll your stats, meaning you could just devote an hour to clicking the reroll button and eventually arrive at godlike stats. let us also not forget, that being caught pickpocketing turned the entire universe hostile.

I think Pillars just shows off all the things that aged about BG1 in the intergrim period. If Pillars=BG 1 it is a solid effort and we should expect great things from pillars 2.

[umiman]

There's this strange, irrational love affair that some people have with "indie" games. And the moment one shows some promise of being better than the 99% of garbage shovelware that saturates the indie game market, people hail it like the second coming. Especially if it was some Kickstarter success.

I did say a few pages back that the game has flaws but I got buried.

The same thing happened to Wasteland 2, Divinity Original Sin, Double Fine's stuff, and Planetary Annihilation.

I bet you the exact same thing will happen to Torment Tides of Whateverera and Star Citizen.

--

Edit:

That being said, I still think it's okay. Not the best but okay. If I were to compare it to other Obsidian / Black Isle games, I think it's the worst out of all of them though.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

I wouldn't call Pillars of Eternity an indie game since it was developed by an experienced studio which has developed a number of high profile games while being backed by a publisher.

If this game receives any undue praise it will be because it was the first big title of what was believed to be a dead genre.

[umiman]

Hence the quotes.

How is RPG a dead genre? There's so frigging many on everything from mobile to console to PC. It's one of the staples of gaming like puzzle games and platformers. I even mentioned Wasteland 2 and Divinity Original Sin that came out fairly recently. This isn't some shit like Simcity.

[Frumple]

RPG as a whole isn't, but party-based ones along the lines of BG or whatev' have definitely been in a slump for a while now, I'd say.