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[Empiricist]

Charles: Not wrong, but poorly done.  Skills start with two +1s, and then levelups upgrade one of those to a +2.  It would be better to start with that +2, then use skills to upgrade the other to +1, and have 5 points to spare.  Also, you have no points in Charisma, which now covers speech.

WHAT? Charisma now covers itself and Speech? In that case, time to request a whole load of charisma battlestims!

Code: (Charles Leroux) [Select]

Missions: 2 (Ice-9, Assault and Defense of Hephaestus)
Timeskips: 1 (Post-Conquest of Hephaestus [1 Year])

Strength:-1 [-1 initially]
Dexterity:0 [0 initially]
Endurance:0 [0 initially]
Charisma:+3 [+2 initially, 15 points]
Intelligence:-2 [-2 initially]
Willpower:0 [0 initially]
Fate:0 [0 initially]

Intuition:+2 [+2 initially]
Handiwork:-1 [-1 initially]
Conventional Weapons:+1 [0 initially, 10 points]
Unconventional Weapons:-1 [-1 initially]
Exotic weapons:-1 [-1 initially]
Auxiliary Systems:0 [0 initially]
Medical Tech:0 [0 initially]
General Knowledge:0 [0 initially]


[Nikitian]

@Xan Dunno; probably best left as +2/ -3 to spread (since that would be playing to the original balance intended by the system - either fair 15-point-exchange three -1s, or you dare dump anything on your own risk at decreased point exchange efficiency).

[Kriellya]

@Piecewise Alternative proposition: Another free +1/-1 before the gradual penalty increase kicks in. (Probably not for increasing +1 over to +2, but only if a second skill gets bonus.)

Spoiler: Relevant snippet of yesterday discussion (click to show/hide)

04:36   Nikitian        So, I've thought about it: with the +2 cap for initial character skills (and ensuing focus on spreading skills rather specialization from start), should the additional +1 in different skills require progressively more -1s?
04:37   Nikitian        As is, the system favors mostly raising a single stat, since it is balanced against that, not against spreading the skills
04:38   Nikitian        So, say, the Mercenary prof of old now needs another -1 somewhere, and don't you even think of going for three +1 skills, unless you're dumping pretty much everything else
04:40   Nikitian        (Now, I am not saying that this wide application of bonuses right from start should not be penalised, but... maybe, as is, it is currently too much?)
04:48   Toaster Maybe give another free +1/-1?
04:48   Toaster So you could do +1 handi/aux and -1 con/uncon for a noncombat builder type
04:48   Toaster Or something like that
04:49   Toaster But +1 handi/aux/med would require four -1
04:51   Nikitian        Yeah, and then + 2 Con/+1 Uncon could be more viable with four -1, for example; and +2/+2 would go straight for minmaxing -7 to spread around
04:53   Nikitian        (as opposed to -6 and -10 to spread, respectively)

This proposal works for me as well

[kj1225]

Wait, so two plus ones are the equivalent of one +2? That dosen't make much sense at all. And it doean't seem like it's correct at all according to the rules.

[Toaster]

Empiricist: Unless I'm wrong again, the Heph Assault is a mission, the Heph Defense is a mission, and the boarding action is a half mission, meaning you should have another full level up in there.

Wait, so two plus ones are the equivalent of one +2? That dosen't make much sense at all. And it doean't seem like it's correct at all according to the rules.

Two plus ones are equal to +1 -> +2, but 0 -> +2 is three +1s.

[kj1225]

Could you try explaining that a bit better? Because that makes zero sense to me right now. Are you saying the two plus ones do use three minus ones or are you saying that they don't and only use two?

[Nikitian]

Ehhh, are we talking about the point buy or the character generation system (or even the proposed change)? I am totally confused now.

[Toaster]

Could you try explaining that a bit better? Because that makes zero sense to me right now. Are you saying the two plus ones do use three minus ones or are you saying that they don't and only use two?

Ehhh, are we talking about the point buy or the character generation system (or even the proposed change)? I am totally confused now.

I'm going to assume for a second we're talking about point buy, because chargen is like that except with an extra stipulation.

Going up from 0 to +1 costs five points.  Going from one level to the next costs five points more than the previous level.  So to get to level...

0 to 1: 5 points
1 to 2: 10 points
2 to 3: 15 points
3 to 4: 20 points

Going straight from 0 to level 2 or higher means you have to pay the costs of every level, so it's cumulative.  So the TOTAL cost of going up from 0...

0 to 1: 5 points
0 to 2: 15 points (5+10)
0 to 3: 30 points (5+10+15)
0 to 4: 50 points (5+10+15+20)

Clearer?


EDIT:  Oh yeah.  Chargen works the same way, but every shift (since you have to take a -1 for each +1 you take) beyond the first costs one additional -1.  So if you want...

1 +1:  1 -1
2 +1:  3 -1
3 +1:  6 -1
4 +1:  10 -1

And at chargen, nothing can go beyond -2 or +2.

[Knight Otu]

Preliminary final, pending rule changes

Spoiler: Gorat "Chin" Ivanos Base (click to show/hide)

Strength: 0
Dexterity: -1
Endurance: 0
Charisma: 0
Intelligence: 0
Willpower: +1
Fate:0

Intuition: 0
Handiwork: -2
Conventional Weapons: +0
Unconventional Weapons: -2
Exotic weapons: +2
Auxiliary Systems: +1
Medical Tech: -2
General Knowledge: 0

Spoiler: Missions (click to show/hide)

M6 Samsonite Abyss   5/5
M9A Ghostship      5/5
M11 Heph Assault      5/5
Time Skip            5/0
M12 Heph Defense      5/5
M18 Eater of Cold      5/5
         30/25

Spoiler: Gorat "Chin" Ivanos Respec (click to show/hide)

Strength: 0
Dexterity: -1
Endurance: 0
Charisma: +1[5]
Intelligence: 0
Willpower: +2 [10 +10/15]
Fate: +1 [5]

Intuition: +1 [5]
Handiwork: -2
Conventional Weapons: +1 [5]
Unconventional Weapons: -2
Exotic weapons: +3 [15]
Auxiliary Systems: +1
Medical Tech: -2
General Knowledge: 0

Remaining: 0 stats, 0 skill, 0 wild

[kj1225]

Ah.

I've decided I hate this new system.

[Pancaek]

Ah.

I've decided I hate this new system.

how so?

[kj1225]

The character gen's values don't add up. The way I understood it was for every +1 you'd get a -1, then for every +2 you have to get -3 cumulatively. but the bonus only count for one value, so for example, you get a +1 and a +2 and in total you only take four points of a malus.

[AoshimaMichio]

Don't think your bonuses separately. Just count them together and calculate necessary maluses from there.

[kj1225]

That's the thing, there's just no real point to make a character with anything more than a single plus one or else you're neutering yourself in a bunch of other stuff.

[Toaster]

That's the thing, there's just no real point to make a character with anything more than a single plus one or else you're neutering yourself in a bunch of other stuff.

Which is why I suggested that players be granted one more shift before the penalty started kicking in.  That said, I understand why PW did it; to avoid people trying to minmax lots of -2s into skills they'll never use for bonuses to skills they will use a lot.