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[ArcaneBoozery]

I was really excited by the most recent update about libraries, the spread of knowledge, and hints of deeper implementation in the future. I am sure that Toady has a ton of great ideas for this aspect of the game, but I just wanted to share my excitement about some of the potential possibilities I can think of down the road for this mechanic (and sorry if it has already been talked over in depth somewhere else):

- a realistically modeled spread of knowledge can of course lead to civilization variety, everything from uber-advanced civs with cutting edge weapons and armor, siege equipment, fortification and transportation systems to primitive wildmen civs with spears and clubs, which would give the game a lot of flavor

- obtaining knowledge in fortress mode to improve your fortress could become a really interesting sub-game of sorts, perhaps setting up inviting conditions for inventors and scholars, investing in research and development within the fortress, sending out adventurers and spies to gather knowledge elsewhere and bring it to you, interacting and trading with other civs for knowledge among other things...

- if knowledge spread is modeled somewhat realistically (such as in the Crusader Kings game), it should be randomized to a degree, with new technologies being discovered in a non-linear way, which always adds a lot of variety to each game

- in adventurer mode, there could be invincible villains/megabeasts that are immune to all weapons and attacks but have some weakness (think Sauron in the ancient battle, getting his ring finger sliced off or Achilles and his heel), and the adventurer would have to maybe go around the world, searching texts in libraries and other places to find the villain's weakness in order to defeat him, this would add an interesting wrinkle to typical "boss" battles.

- this might be my favorite possibility of all: I really hate how mages are implemented in pretty much all fantasy games. What they are is essentially a different flavor of a warrior: cast spell instead of swing sword and some minor differences, but overall, not what the lore image of a mage would have you imagine them as. I always think of a cooler, more lore-friendly version of a mage as a frail scholarly type who spends their time in libraries and magical labs, increasing their arcane knowledge, an arcane scientist if you will. Now, I have no idea obviously of how DF will implement them, but what I would love to see in conjunction with this library/knowledge system, is if you decide to become a mage as an adventurer, then the way to increase your magical power is to go around various libraries of the world (perhaps having to enroll in magical universities or secret magical societies/cults along the way to gain access to their libraries) and actually read the various tomes there in order to try to find clues about magical power.

This wouldn't be like coming to a library and seeing right away 4 tomes of architecture and then one shiny magical tome, but more like finding clues in regular books. Perhaps a historical poem that recites some ancient battle has a description of an ancient mage casting something, and the player could learn some part of the casting process from that, to be later combined with another clue from another book elsewhere. Maybe this won't be for everyone, but I feel like this system (or something similar to it) would be a breath of fresh air in mage gameplay and really differentiate mages from other types of adventurers/characters.

[HavingPhun]

I am also excited about the inclusion of libraries, and like your ideas. My question is, will forts have libraries?

[malvado]

My best guess is that forts will indeed have libraries as well.
A future update indicates that this will help with the knowledge of your civilization or perhaps just your fort.

Hopefully it wont tax your computer too much.

[Man In Zero G]

I am also excited about the inclusion of libraries, and like your ideas. My question is, will forts have libraries?

Though the focus with your dwarves this time is on taverns and leisure, there is a possibility of a fort library being a minor topic (as temples are currently).

Possibly! But, like Temples, if it goes in it'll just be a foundation. Don't expect much more than a place to store whatever books find their way to your fort - at least in this next release.

[Kamsko]

All these possibilities! Especially the magic as you already mentioned. This is a huge chance to do some thing entirely new with mages. How that plays out from the mystical toady we can only wait and see. Though I hope magic ends up being a mixed bag from the book learning. Mix together what you learned so far with varying, maybe even disastrous effect.

There was also talk long ago of magic being different based on the world gods and their sphere of influence. That idea seemed good too, even better if mixed with book learning spells. Can't wait to see adventurers using magic in many different ways, not just fireballs and magic missile.

[King_of_Baboons]

Oh God yes!I always wanted to become some sort of Merlin in adventure mode!

Bonus points if you can find a poet or a writer to join in your adventures and let him write a full book about your travels around the world.

[Moonshadow101]

While the possibilities are limitless, there is one thing I'd really like to see that I don't think is overly ambitious: Dwarves should be able to study. When my medical Dwarves aren't cutting folks up, they should be in the library, growing their skill or at least preventing it from rusting.

[Bearskie]

It does set the stage for possible book burning shenanigans though.  Meet UristMcInquisitor, adventurer and *ahem* fond collector of books.  Which he then drops in magma.

[Sanctume]

It does set the stage for possible book burning shenanigans though.  Meet UristMcInquisitor, adventurer and *ahem* fond collector of books.  Which he then drops in magma.

Book made from Nether Cap is magma-safe.
UristMcInquisitor invents Atom Smasher; dwarf engineers approved!

[Bearskie]

Alternatively, three-parts magma and two-parts water.  Whoosh~

[BoredVirulence]

It does set the stage for possible book burning shenanigans though.  Meet UristMcInquisitor, adventurer and *ahem* fond collector of books.  Which he then drops in magma.

Book made from Nether Cap is magma-safe.
UristMcInquisitor invents Atom Smasher; dwarf engineers approved!

Nethercap is magma safe, but loose items dumped in magma aren't. It will burn. The constant temperature tag doesn't always work so well.

[klefenz]

- this might be my favorite possibility of all: I really hate how mages are implemented in pretty much all fantasy games. What they are is essentially a different flavor of a warrior: cast spell instead of swing sword and some minor differences, but overall, not what the lore image of a mage would have you imagine them as. I always think of a cooler, more lore-friendly version of a mage as a frail scholarly type who spends their time in libraries and magical labs, increasing their arcane knowledge, an arcane scientist if you will. Now, I have no idea obviously of how DF will implement them, but what I would love to see in conjunction with this library/knowledge system, is if you decide to become a mage as an adventurer, then the way to increase your magical power is to go around various libraries of the world (perhaps having to enroll in magical universities or secret magical societies/cults along the way to gain access to their libraries) and actually read the various tomes there in order to try to find clues about magical power.

I would like thinking of someting like the first mage ever, the guy who wrote those ancient books of spells. How did he discover those spells? Didi he lay down an experimental foundation on how to study magic and discover new spells? How do people of centuries later discover new spells? Do the new mages consider the ancient spells as primitive and inefficient?

[Delioth]

- if knowledge spread is modeled somewhat realistically (such as in the Crusader Kings game), it should be randomized to a degree, with new technologies being discovered in a non-linear way, which always adds a lot of variety to each game

You're wondering whether something is going to be modeled somewhat realistically? In the game where Toady wanted (in a minor release, no less!) minecarts to be able to fly properly... and ended up coding a system for parabolic motion for every flying object that wasn't a projectile directly from a weapon. The same where you can target a single finger for an attack because you technically could do it, despite it having no real effect (Unless you smash it for huge pain, but that applies most of the time.)

Yeah, I think it'll make it in pretty realistically.

[ArcaneBoozery]

I would like thinking of someting like the first mage ever, the guy who wrote those ancient books of spells. How did he discover those spells? Didi he lay down an experimental foundation on how to study magic and discover new spells? How do people of centuries later discover new spells? Do the new mages consider the ancient spells as primitive and inefficient?

Well, there could be different possibilities there. One is similar to Lord of the Rings Middle Earth, where the Gods/Angels could use magic and eventually taught its use to the elves to some degree. In DF, perhaps deities can bestow such a gift on a particularly dedicated follower, maybe only in the early years of a world, or maybe throughout. These primary magicians would pass on their magic knowledge to students and/or write it down and thus make it available to select others.

Another really cool possibility is if it will be possible to set up a magic lab and perform magical experiments to gain arcane knowledge. This could be tied in to studying books anyway, perhaps the higher level mage you are, the easier it is to successfully perform an experiment and learn something new. So at first, a novice mage would be much better served by reading others' works, but once they know a lot, they can break new ground themselves experimentally.

You're wondering whether something is going to be modeled somewhat realistically? In the game where Toady wanted (in a minor release, no less!) minecarts to be able to fly properly... and ended up coding a system for parabolic motion for every flying object that wasn't a projectile directly from a weapon. The same where you can target a single finger for an attack because you technically could do it, despite it having no real effect (Unless you smash it for huge pain, but that applies most of the time.)

Yeah, I think it'll make it in pretty realistically.

Haha.

[Boltgun]

What I see is that whenever Toady code a finger, he manage to code the entire arm behind. As always, his ability to create simple frameworks that is reused everywhere is amazing.

I mean, we only started with bands of traveling poets and now we have "everything that can be learnt, taught, written down".