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[c0mplex]

As I have been familiarizing myself with the different workshops and mechanics in this game, I came to the realization of how little is needed to start a fort thanks to the Masterwork Workshops.

Essentially, if one wishes to have a functional fortress, they at least need a pick to mine, an axe to cut down trees, and a source of food, drink and water.

Thinking about it though, with the Masterwork workshops, these are all easily obtainable. Food is guaranteed since no matter your embark, you start with two animals that can be butchered. Booze can be made out of gathered plants and drained blood (bloodwine), and water can be made from booze at a Brewery or pressed from quarry bushes at the screw press.

The addition of the stonecrafter's workshop and the rockforge (now not needing a discovery), makes a pick and an axe unnecessary at the start.

If I have done the calculations correctly: 1 boulder = 1 mason workshop; 1 boulder = 4 blocks through the mason; 2 blocks = 1 Stonecrafter's workshop; 3 blocks = 1 rock anvil through the stonecrafter; 2 blocks + 1 anvil = 1 Rockforge; 2 boulders = 1 pick/axe.

This means a minimum of four (Magma Safe) boulders are required in place of 1 pick axe by: building a mason (1 boulder); making 4 blocks (1 boulder); building a Stonecrafter's Workshop (2 blocks); deconstructing the mason workshop for a boulder back; making 4 blocks at the Stonecrafter's workshop (1 boulder); make a rock anvil (3 blocks); make a Rockforge (2 blocks+1 anvil); make a rock pick (2 boulders); dig up more stone and make an axe (2 boulders).

The boulders you bring must be magma safe (or at least one has to be magma safe) as the stonecrafter cannot make blocks out of non-magma safe boulders, but that is still a minimum of 12 embark points needed to start a self-sustainable fortress.

However, I am not too sure with how well that holds up when it comes to food and drink, since obviously not all embark sites will have food, water, trees/plants, and soil. With that in mind, I am curious about what is the bare minimum amount of starting equipment needed to establish and sustain a fully self sufficient (as in, not needing or relying upon outside items to come in) fortress.

So, does anyone have an idea of what would be the minimum amount of starting gear for any embark that either beats my four boulders or addresses its lack starting food/drink gaining capability.

And I did think about the use of shrines of Armok, but I am not sure how reliable they are for sustaining the starting 7 dwarves+any incoming migrants. 

[smakemupagus]

Remember you can deconstruct the wagon for three pieces of wood too (one of which can become an axe)

[Meph]

You can embark with nothing, just like in vanilla DF.

Deconstruct the wagon, get 3 logs, make carpenter, make 2 training axes, cut down trees, build fort, wait for caravan, buy pick or ingredients to make pick (rocks, gems, etc). Meanwhile drink from ponds/river, hunt manually, fish or collect plants to eat.

[Fairin]

Real dwarves embark with nothing, and MAKE the land give them what they need! (plants / animals / bones(omg the bones) crossbows are your friends >: )

now i have to do an itemless embark in mw-reborn... them bones <3


leader: "make me a bone table for my office! "

bonecarver: "ok boss!" *grabs stack of 21 cow bones, makes 21 tables*

[c0mplex]

Remember you can deconstruct the wagon for three pieces of wood too (one of which can become an axe)

Well yes, but I do not think there is a way to make an pick out of wood while making picks and axes out of stone is a possibility. So I do not think that cuts the minimum requirement of the four boulders. Plus embarks will almost always have stone, trees are not always assured.

You can embark with nothing, just like in vanilla DF.

Deconstruct the wagon, get 3 logs, make carpenter, make 2 training axes, cut down trees, build fort, wait for caravan, buy pick or ingredients to make pick (rocks, gems, etc). Meanwhile drink from ponds/river, hunt manually, fish or collect plants to eat.

I know, but that is why I said I was looking for a way to start a fully functional fortress that is "fully self sufficient (as in, not needing or relying upon outside items to come in)". Plus that does not cover embarks that lack natural water, plants, or trees on the surface. Manual hunting can work but I am trying to not rely on chance.

If we could be picky, I believe it would be possible to just start on an embark with clay on the surface, gather the clay into boulders, and then use the clay in place of boulders and then do the four boulders thing to get a pick. If that is possible, then one could theoretically start with nothing and still not need to use any wood; from the wagon or otherwise.

I guess you could say I am trying to think of the bare minimum needed to survive no matter the embark and without any caravans or expecting any wildlife, thieves or anything else coming in to provide supplies; I.E. self-sufficient. My biggest issue is reliably getting food and water without relying on the map or outside aid to give it to me.

[smakemupagus]

Remember you can deconstruct the wagon for three pieces of wood too (one of which can become an axe)

Well yes, but I do not think there is a way to make an pick out of wood while making picks and axes out of stone is a possibility. So I do not think that cuts the minimum requirement of the four boulders. Plus embarks will almost always have stone, trees are not always assured.

If you're not counting on anything (clay, trees, fish, plants) at the embark, then i think you still just need two stone blocks for the first shrine.  Blocks from stone at the mason shop; mason shop made from the deconstructed wagon. ..... So you need one stone.

If we could be picky, I believe it would be possible to just start on an embark with clay on the surface, gather the clay into boulders, and then use the clay in place of boulders and then do the four boulders thing to get a pick. If that is possible, then one could theoretically start with nothing and still not need to use any wood; from the wagon or otherwise.

Still need wood from the wagon for whatever building generates the "gather clay" jobs.

[c0mplex]

If you're not counting on anything (clay, trees, fish, plants) at the embark, then i think you still just need two stone blocks for the first shrine.  Blocks from stone at the mason shop; mason shop made from the deconstructed wagon. ..... So you need one stone.

Wait, it is possible to get a pick (or at least its materials) from a shrine?

Still need wood from the wagon for whatever building generates the "gather clay" jobs.

Oh yeah, that's right. Forgot that needs a clay oven to activate the task.

[Meph]

Sure.

You can embark on a cave, take to the caverns, they always have water. You can build a shrine, pray for metal bars, make a pick. But you dont need stone blocks.. you need any blocks. Carpenter can make wooden blocks from logs.

[smakemupagus]

Wait, it is possible to get a pick (or at least its materials) from a shrine?

Yeah, pray for hard metal gives iron and steel at 1% for the anvil, and you can make the workshops and pick itself from those or any bronze you get.

Meph, if he's going to choose where he embarks to get a cave, he might as well just embark on a nice forested brook with clay

[c0mplex]

Sure.

You can embark on a cave, take to the caverns, they always have water. You can build a shrine, pray for metal bars, make a pick. But you dont need stone blocks.. you need any blocks. Carpenter can make wooden blocks from logs.

Hmm... that could work, though embarking on a cavern shouldn't be necessary once I get a pick and just dig down to the caverns. I wanted the stone blocks to get the stone anvil from the rockforge, but if I can just get bars of metal directly, that shouldn't be necessary.

In this case, I would need to get fuel in order to make a pick though.

I'd start with 3 logs. Carpenter makes wood planks at a 1 for 1 basis. Make a wood splitting block to turn one log into 4 planks. Two planks go to the shrine. Wait till I get at enough bars to make a smelter so that I can make an anvil, then a forge. Make charcoal out of a plank. Use metal to make a pick. I would still have the extra log from the carpenter so that is still 4 extra planks. I don't even think a boulder is necessary.

The catch is that I am not sure how long it will take to make each bar since it is random and I don't think you can give a dwarf praying at the start so they will be slow at doing it. Once I get a pick, it would be possible to dig to the first cavern layer and get access to plants and water, though it is dangerous as hell to do so. But yeah, I think this can work. I'm going to try it.

[Meph]

You can make training axes and more wood?

[c0mplex]

You can make training axes and more wood?

Did I make a miscalculation? I always start with a wagon; that's three logs. One log makes a carpenter's workshop. One log is made a wood splitting block. One log is made into four planks. Two planks make a shrine. One plank makes charcoal. Shrine provides metal bars to make a smelter, anvil, forge, then pick. I can still break down the carpenter's workshop to make four more planks for whatever.

[smakemupagus]

2 pieces of charcoal; I think it's needed for both the COLD_ANVIL and the forged pick. Assuming you're going to find a tree someday, eventually you'll need to reserve either another charcoal or a piece of wood for the axe.

[c0mplex]

Okay well I went ahead and did this crazy embark. I went with only dwarves and my obligatory wagon and tusk oxen. Embarked on a sand desert with no river, no vegetation, and no trees.

And I was successful in reaching the first cavern's water supply before my dwarves all died of thirst/starvation.

But now I'm kicking myself because something doesn't add up. I should have had 9 planks to work with. Two had to go into making the anvil and the pick. Four went into making two shrines. Two went into making a woodcrafter's shop. And paradoxically I was able to use two to make a barrel.

I don't know know how I somehow ended up with ten. I know for a fact that I didn't bring any items on embark and I couldn't have collected anything on this barren map. I did do a lot of building workshops and then taking them apart to make something else, but unless that led to somehow making a new plank I am utterly confused.

Maybe I wasn't paying attention and somehow generated two pieces of charcoal from the plank.

So um... proof of concept, but I think I broke something.