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[SaD-82]

Hello,

as everyone, who played Adventure Mode in 40.xx, should have realised by now the enemies don't want to fight. Even if you spill the guts of their friends right beside them.
Reading in the forum and the bug reports there is consent that this is related to the new morale system.
I really doubt it - reason for this is the civilization-system (checkable in Legend Mode)

In former versions:
If you attacked an individual (or an animal related to a faction) you became an enemy of said faction. If you were a member then you would be expelled and hunted down.
In 40.xx:
If you attack someone no civilization-entry is changed. You just don't become an enemy regardless of what you will do.

Long story short:
Because of the lost opportunities for fun (dying horrible deaths by swinging at the wrong person) I have to ask:
Is this behaviour of not updating the civilization-system intended - for programming issues, testing issues or just as an at-rest for an upcoming feature - or is this a plain bug - therefore mentioning in the bug reports?

Best regards, an Adventure Mode player who would love to see some infighting again

[Rumrusher]

Hello,

as everyone, who played Adventure Mode in 40.xx, should have realised by now the enemies don't want to fight. Even if you spill the guts of their friends right beside them.
Reading in the forum and the bug reports there is consent that this is related to the new morale system.
I really doubt it - reason for this is the civilization-system (checkable in Legend Mode)

In former versions:
If you attacked an individual (or an animal related to a faction) you became an enemy of said faction. If you were a member then you would be expelled and hunted down.
In 40.xx:
If you attack someone no civilization-entry is changed. You just don't become an enemy regardless of what you will do.

Long story short:
Because of the lost opportunities for fun (dying horrible deaths by swinging at the wrong person) I have to ask:
Is this behaviour of not updating the civilization-system intended - for programming issues, testing issues or just as an at-rest for an upcoming feature - or is this a plain bug - therefore mentioning in the bug reports?

Best regards, an Adventure Mode player who would love to see some infighting again

it's mostly that discipline skill missing. if you bump up that stat on races they will retaliate against any violence though this pretty much kills your chances of getting away with crimes and not having no way to retire in any site, though it would take alot to make you an enemy of the state but mostly people would just think you're a killer, and pushing for power of the area and not just trying to ransack the whole place.

[Robsoie]

I highly doubt it is intented for the characters to get away with everything and face absolutely no consequence for any of their actions or that none has any reactions, because the current "Do evil = it was inevitable" , "Do good = it was inevitable", "Do nothing = "it was inevitable" is certainly not supposed to happens every single time.

Only the child rescue seems to have an actual working reaction (kids and adults happy of their reunion) and working consequence (you're becoming a hero with some of the factions), everything else is either unfinished or buggy (plenty of reports already in the bug trackers)

Is it related to the lack of discipline skill, to npc constantly being frightened (as for the AI dialogues, when things are not inevitable , they are terrifying) , i'm not sure , maybe there's the rumour system that is not propagating correctly (so maybe it's just that the guy that is at 2 tiles of his beloved brother the player just butchered hasn't recieved the rumour of you killing his brother), who know.

[Rumrusher]

I highly doubt it is intented for the characters to get away with everything and face absolutely no consequence for any of their actions or that none has any reactions, because the current "Do evil = it was inevitable" , "Do good = it was inevitable", "Do nothing = "it was inevitable" is certainly not supposed to happens every single time.

Only the child rescue seems to have an actual working reaction (kids and adults happy of their reunion) and working consequence (you're becoming a hero with some of the factions), everything else is either unfinished or buggy (plenty of reports already in the bug trackers)

Is it related to the lack of discipline skill, to npc constantly being frightened (as for the AI dialogues, when things are not inevitable , they are terrifying) , i'm not sure , maybe there's the rumour system that is not propagating correctly (so maybe it's just that the guy that is at 2 tiles of his beloved brother the player just butchered hasn't recieved the rumour of you killing his brother), who know.

my guess is family members are tied to those quests. where as if I remember back in 31.xx those folks usually don't have kill quests for you unless someone straight up kills them and you revive their corpse.  peasants kinda run through world gen and get history then the game fills out the rest with blanks. sites kinda have a section called inhabitants that allows you to set how many or what horrible syndrome they have.
this inhabitant seems to be the reason quests seem so jarring those blank peasants are technically babies born into a world with no comment pointing to why they should be personally fine with the crimes being punished if anything sees another crime being done.
Outside of the exception for historical people who had family attack or murdered or converted by night creatures.
that said this would mean there's a trigger where you piss off the army which leads to the town up against you.
so uhh murder doesn't bring up 1 star, or murdering the lord of the day either... so I guess killing the king would push you to 2 star and getting attack by armies?

[StagnantSoul]

I was openly thanked by a lord for getting rid of a hill titan. He even said it was terrific.

[Max™]

I'm still trying to work out exactly what the difference between hero, famous hero, legendary hero, and greatly respected for heroic acts is. It's a shame there is no way to say "I reunited ten families not a week ago", while people who have had family killed by a dragon will give the "is dumbstruck" response, I've had bystanders do it when they were around and I bring kids back, but sometimes you can actually miss the person they're reuniting with apparently. I think it's when there are a lot of kids and several people at one spot, the lag makes some of them happy that they're reunited but they don't seem to recognize that you did it.

Incidentally you can also see what you're talking about with the "born into the world with no history" when you find someone with no family to speak of, they kinda behave in a funky manner at times.

Oh, going the other way, how happy does being reunited with kids make someone, like say, a human lasher who moved into a fort you unretired?

Did you say happy enough for them to adopt like 60 kids?


They show up as friendly since it was a human parent, so I did tweak makeown on em for science.

[SaD-82]

Hello,

it's mostly that discipline skill missing. if you bump up that stat on races they will retaliate against any violence though this pretty much kills your chances of getting away with crimes and not having no way to retire in any site, though it would take alot to make you an enemy of the state but mostly people would just think you're a killer, and pushing for power of the area and not just trying to ransack the whole place.

No, I'm not talking about the passive stance of creatures which I attack.
I'm talking about the passive stance of bystanders and - more important - every other person of the same entity/civilization of the victim who didn't see the attack. Or, in other words: In Legends Mode you will never see a "The Blarrgh of Glarrgh (enemy)" in your related entity-list. Thus preventing being attacked by the civ you just decimated.

It's the same as the problem with accusing someone as a vampire.
Try it for yourself:
1. Accuse a vampire of being a night creature.
2. Write down his name or slaughter him (the latter makes things easier).
3. Give in to starvation or retire.
4. Open Legend Mode.
5. Search for the vampir (either by searching his name or looking into your kill list).
6. Look who accused him of being a vampire (hint: It's not you).
7. Search for the name of said person.
8. Scratch your head in finding a clue how a long dead person could accuse said vampir.

This bug - and in this case I'm pretty sure it's one - prevents the vampir from attacking you thus leading to being a murderer if you slay him (you have to attack him otherwise he will only spit at you while being nice and friendly in your conversation).
At first I had hope that the person who accused the vampir (yeah, actually it was you but I'm referring to Legend Mode) also would get the enemy-trait in the entity of the vampir. Sadly it's not the case. Maybe another long dead person becomes enemy? Who knows. And for this problem I really would like to see any solution. Otherwise it's boring in hunting humans/dwarfs/elves/goblins/kobolds as this would be a perfect way to start site-wars and FUN in the whole world.
And the sad part is: In older version there wasn't this problem but there was no site-claiming stuff.
I guess you can't have all...

[Uzu Bash]

I've accused vampires and seen them declared enemy of the civilization, so killing them wasn't considered murder. Possibly because I was a lord? They may not become hostile immediately, but they become a lot easier to provoke. I had attacked the law-giver a few times without being declared an enemy, and he kept fleeing. After I outed him as a vampire, he stopped running and started fighting back, and all the lords I accused in the same keep joined in. The only killing I wasn't forgiven for was a mortal, even though she attacked me first. Possibly because she was also a noble?

[SaD-82]

And despite being attacked by them (sometimes the morale system may work as intended but it's more like winning a lottery) you didn't became an enemy of their entity. It's the same as attacking a soldier. Sometimes a nearby soldier who saw the attack is willing to join the fight. Sometimes. Rather fewer.
But you will never get the entry "Civ (enemy)". So other guards in the same site wont attack you on sight. Even if you would wait for ten years - allowing the spread of the rumour that you attacked someone of their entity.
You wont even get the entry "Civ (former member)" if you attack someone of your own civ (let's be clear: I'm talking about lethal attacks not a simple fistfight).
The only changes in the entity-list happen if you become rumoured killer - but without any consequences - and all the heroic acknowledgments.

[Uzu Bash]

Well, I never did have a positive approval rating in my own city again. After the new lawgiver moved in, the prevailing opinion was "Iron is still lord, but it's alright! Kad Holdrhyme is here, there will be law!"

But I was never a member of the original site government so I couldn't become a former member. Historically, site infighting, uprisings and civil wars aren't that uncommon in this civ, and there don't seem to be any reprisals after the conflicts. The only entities I became Noted Killer with were the criminal orgs.

[Max™]

Being a killer doesn't have anything to do with a group being friendly with you:

Simply sharing the details of enough of my 1300+ kills with my mom was sufficient to become known as a legendary killer by my own civilization, The Prime Doors. My mom being the Champion and Militia-Commander of our Fortress.

I am going to poke around in gm-editor and see if I can figure out what flags are being flipped when something is labeled as an enemy of a civ though.

[Uzu Bash]

Ah, that makes sense. The only ones I bragged at length about my kills to were criminals and bandits, to intimidate them. With the government and civs I only talked about the beast kills.