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[Teneb]

Extend

[Silthuri]

Here it is as promised: Ye Olde Wall o’ Text. I think this is the first time I've actually delivered on this promise...

Spoiler: origamiscienceguy (click to show/hide)

Everybody,
of the three third-party roles, which sounds the most fun to you?

This is very biased because I was the Ugly in the last instalment of this game, but I’d love to be the Ugly. There are so many shenanigans one could get into with that and I feel cheated because I didn’t get the chance in the last game.

It seems like Roo is bussing tiruin. I am not sure though which is why I am voting roo, not tiruin.

What makes you think this? This is kind of an odd accusation to throw out without evidence. How do you feel about this knowing roo’s flip?

I don't think you are bussing anymore.

Again, why? Why did you make a sudden accusation and then withdraw it just as suddenly?

Spoiler: Mastahcheese (click to show/hide)

 

Everyone: If you were the Bad, would it be wiser to try to hunt down the Good/Ugly, or just try to live to the end and win with the town/scum? Why?

I think it’d be wiser to try to hunt the Good/Ugly down, especially as D4 approaches and they’d really start hunting the Bad. I just think it’s best to knock the main enemies out of the equation as soon as possible.

Everyone: [1] Would any of the third parties merit a policy-lynch if you found out who they were?
[2] Should the scum be lynched before a scum-sided Bad or should it be the other way around?
[3] If you were town, would you try to help the Good/Ugly, the Bad, or neither?

[1] Not really? The real threat is scum. Not saying we should ignore third parties, but they aren't the main threat.
[2] Lynch scum first. Always. You can potentially reason with the Bad.
[3] I'd try to lynch scum, and if the third parties help, that's great. Do I detect the faintest of scum slips in your wording?

@bold: Why is this a thing? Explain exactly what it is about his wording that makes you think it’s significant enough to warrant emphasis.

Spoiler: Peradon (click to show/hide)

Silthuri: How many games have you played? How many of these have you won?

I’ll answer your question in a bit because I’ve been curious about my win/loss ratio lately, but first and foremost, what did you hope to gain from this question? Aside from finding out that I’ve got a bit of experience, which you should know due to the fact that I ran the previous BM and the post where I joined this game. Your questions to other people seem more relevant to Mafia. This one does not.

BM XLIV – My first mafia game; Win as town
The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly – Win as third party.
BMXVI – Win as Scum
NSBM 4 – Loss as Town
One Day Mafia – Loss as Town
Smster W/ Love – Win as a third-party thing
Jack’s Simple BYOR – Win as Town
Mini Mafia Madness – Overall loss due to replacing in for someone who never even posted; Win in the only tent I could play in, though.
Supernatural 7 – Loss as third party because I replaced in for a moron in a hopeless situation.
BM XLVIII – Win as Scum IC
Prince of the Mafia – Won one round as town
BYOR 13 – Loss as third party
Choose Your Own Masquerade – Win as town
BM 51 – Loss as Scum IC

So over all, I’ve played 14 games and won 8

Silthuri: When is your schedule open? (just asking this to fulfill 4mask's request.... I really dont have anything to ask you.)

My schedule tends to be open between Monday and Thursday. Except when I’ve got a lot of last minute assignments and am forced to play secretary for Nerjin. But Friday through Sunday, I’m barely online, if at all due to work and such.

Spoiler: Deathsword (click to show/hide)

DS: if we don't have any way to determine which of them they are, leave them alone. Otherwise it's a one in three chance that one of us will end up dead instead, which doesn't seem like good odds to me.

DA: I find it pretty curious that you said "we don't", as if stating something that is, rather than "we didn't", meaning a hypothetical situation. Why is that?

This is really standing out to me. This kind of nitpicking rubs me the wrong way. The inclusion of “if,” at least to me, negates the difference between “don’t” and “didn’t.”

The if is irrelevant. For example: I am town, so if I say "if I do vote you", I am saying that implying my alignment. Now, if I was asked what I'd do as, let's say, the Bad, I'd phrase it as "if I did vote you".

If is a big factor in this. The if is what makes it hypothetical. The usage of “did” and “do” are prone to personal wording patterns. I’d use them both regardless of whether I was town or not. Again, this nitpicking rubs me the wrong way.

Spoiler: Comrade Shamrock (click to show/hide)

roo:
How's life in scum chat?

This is sending up a couple red flags due to roo’s recent flip. This was your first vote in the game and targeted a scum. Right before this, you ask Tiruin and myself a rather serious question, yet you vote for roo and ask a question you’ll obviously get nothing from. This seems a bit like initial distancing.

Tiruin and Silthuri:
Our resident lurkers. 

As the bad what do you think the greatest danger to you would be?

First of all, :p
Second, I think the greatest danger would be the Good and Ugly, who would be gunning for me. Town would be less of a threat because should they investigate me, they’d get a town result giving me a line of defense against any opposition from town.

Spoiler: TheDarkStar (click to show/hide)

Everyone: Would any of the third parties merit a policy-lynch if you found out who they were?
Should the scum be lynched before a scum-sided Bad or should it be the other way around?
If you were town, would you try to help the Good/Ugly, the Bad, or neither?

All of the third parties could, in certain situations, warrant a policy lynch. Their goal is to kill the opposing team/individual and make the game last to a certain point. This would involve a bit of manipulation and possibly the murder of a couple townies to achieve. The third parties are a threat, especially if the game is going very well for town, such as now. There’s only one scum left. The third parties don’t want us to find said scum. I think if we discover any third parties, they should be lynched immediately.
Scum should be the first priority, I think. Should the Bad be discovered, it would be best to get rid of them quickly because they’re fairly dangerous with their kill. The scum remain the #1 enemy, however, and should be the focus of hunting.
I most definitely will not be helping the third parties. I view them as a possible threat and refuse to assist them when they have no reason to be on my side in the first place. There’s no real benefit for me if I help them.
I’d also like to point out that the fact that the entire focus of these questions involve how town would react to third parties isn’t sitting well with me. I’m torn between accepting your explanation that the third parties are a unique aspect of this game, and also wondering what town thinks of you, should you be third party.

Spoiler: Deus Asmoth (click to show/hide)

Everyone: Would any of the third parties merit a policy-lynch if you found out who they were?
Should the scum be lynched before a scum-sided Bad or should it be the other way around?
If you were town, would you try to help the Good/Ugly, the Bad, or neither?

I don't see much point in lynching the Good and lynching the Ugly would take two days and wouldn't bring us any closer to eliminating the scum, so it'd be a waste of time. The Bad might be worth lynching, since them siding with scum is a risk, but I think it'd depend on the player and wouldn't really be a policy lynch then.

Lynching scum should be the priority. Unless my maths is off, lynching a scum and leaving them with the two night kills would put them at the same distance to their wincon as lynching the Bad and leaving two scum alive, whereas it puts the town a lot closer to victory.

The GBU's problems are no concern of mine. They can do their thing and I'll try to find scum.

@bold: They have a kill and a wincon that likely conflicts with that of town. They are still a threat, albeit a lesser one than the scum, but is it truly wise to ignore threats?

Everyone: Which of the two possible town power roles seems the most useful to you?

I think I’d prefer the Guardsman. They’ve got the power to roleblock people and I find that incredibly useful in a game with so many possible kills. I also think that the Angry Private would be incredibly useful, especially when looking at how it’s already done us a great service in this game.

Spoiler: 4maskwolf (click to show/hide)

What's wrong with third-party hunting?  It wastes time.

Not necessarily. The Bad, who is essentially a SK, is very likely to play against town. While the main focus of hunting should be the scum, this danger should not be ignored either.

I'm saying that at the moment, the scum are the town's concern, not the third-parties.  They can sort themselves out well enough.

I’d like for you to explain why we should ignore third parties, who have motive to play against us and have kills. They are a threat. While the scum are our main target, we cannot afford to let this threat go!

Cheeetar: Do tell, how does lynching third parties get the town any closer to winning the game?  Answer in a nutshell: it doesn't.  The only thing that gets the town closer to winning is lynching scum.

Perhaps, but neither does letting third parties with kills run wild. At the very least, I’d rather lynch a third party than a townie.

Oh, and to the angry private: thank you for your service to the town, but you made my gambit backfire in my face because I didn't forsee that particular circumstance.  I believe it would now be best for the town if I was lynched.  You see, I believe that the more kills are going around the better, since they have a chance of hitting the last scum, and currently I'm probably the easiest target for the bad due to playing myself off as a third-party.

You see, my role is vanilla townie.  Upon receiving my role, I decided to draw fire away from the two town power roles by trying to come across as a town power role so that the scum would kill me.  However, at the same time, I was trying to appear as a third-party so that the bad would shoot me (the fewer kills potentially hitting power roles, the better).  However, with only one town power role and one scum and the power-role gambit shut down early on by a focus on my third-party gambit, it would be better if the kills were targeted more randomly so that the bad has a higher chance of hitting the remaining scum.

I will not vote for myself.  I'm still going to push to find the scum so that we can get an unprescedented D1 win.  But it may be for the best if I get lynched so that my gambit is put to rest.

I have evidence to back this up, but I'm not going to reveal my personal quicktopic much in the way that the good-ugly and scum don't reveal their quicktopics.  It's not regulated by Persus13, but I think it's a tad cheap to do such a thing so I'm going to keep it until the end of the game, when I'll reveal it.  Anyway, let's find ourselves some scum, shall we.

A roleclaim? Really? It's D1, man. I still think you're very suspicious. Your gambit wasn't ruined by what's happened, at least in my opinion. I've been thinking of you as third party this entire time, due to your complete lack of attention toward a threat which can very easily mess the game up for town, and nothing thus far has changed my mind.

So... I think I'll go ahead and add an extend to the pile. I'm also quite suspicious of 4mask due to the reasons in the spoiler.

[origamiscienceguy]

It seems like Roo is bussing tiruin. I am not sure though which is why I am voting roo, not tiruin.

What makes you think this? This is kind of an odd accusation to throw out without evidence. How do you feel about this knowing roo’s flip?

I don't think you are bussing anymore.

Again, why? Why did you make a sudden accusation and then withdraw it just as suddenly?
[/spoiler]

At first, I thought that roo was being mad at tiruin for no reason, which suggested bussing because I didn't think he would just pick a random person to attack so aggressively. But Then I realized that he did the same thing in the BM game and he started doing it on Playergamer so I didn't think he was doing it anymore.

[Persus13]

Day has been extended 24 hours to Thursday, March 26 at 3:00 PM EST


Votecount:
TheDarkStar-4maskwolf, Mastahcheese
4maskwolf- Cheeetar, Comrade Shamrock, TheDarkStar, Silthuri
Cheeetar-Deus Asmoth, Peradon

One more extension remains today.

[Cheeetar]

4maskwolf's roleclaim gave me a bit of pause. Then I remembered that he's 4maskwolf, he does gambits, and I'm still pretty sure he's third party. I'm still gonna be voting for him.

[origamiscienceguy]

I still think he's third party, but I don't want to vote for him because there is a 2/3 chance that he could be helpful to the town. (I don't think that good/ugly are gonna want to side with mafia at this point.)

[Cheeetar]

You don't want to vote him... because he's third party? So are you the ugly or the good, OSG?

[origamiscienceguy]

You don't want to vote him... because he's third party? So are you the ugly or the good, OSG?

There's a 2/3 chance that he is gonna help town. Along with whatever chance there is that he was telling the truth about the gambit.

[Cheeetar]

Please explain this made up 2/3 statistic, OSG. 2/3 of the third parties at the moment require at least 3 town mislynches to win the game.

Show me where he said it was not town behavior, because I dont see it.

Blah. Sorry. Didn't even see this for a while. If he says town should not be doing something, that makes it non-town behaviour, yeah?

[Peradon]

Blah. Sorry. Didn't even see this for a while. If he says town should not be doing something, that makes it non-town behaviour, yeah?

You are making bad assumptions. First, you assume that when he says that town shouldnt be doing something, he's saying that that is non town, which is wrong. It may not be wise for town to do something, but that happens all the time, people do stupid things. Next, you say that non-town is equivalent to scummy, which is it invariably not. Take the CYOM for example. I gave up when being voted for 5 hours before the lynch. This was non-town of me to do, which by your logic, means that I must have been scum. Except I wasnt, I was town. Thus, non-town =/= scummy.

It really looked like you were misinterpreting him pretty badly, and your argument makes no sense. Thus, my vote stays on you.

[Silthuri]

It seems like Roo is bussing tiruin. I am not sure though which is why I am voting roo, not tiruin.

What makes you think this? This is kind of an odd accusation to throw out without evidence. How do you feel about this knowing roo’s flip?

I don't think you are bussing anymore.

Again, why? Why did you make a sudden accusation and then withdraw it just as suddenly?
[/spoiler]

At first, I thought that roo was being mad at tiruin for no reason, which suggested bussing because I didn't think he would just pick a random person to attack so aggressively. But Then I realized that he did the same thing in the BM game and he started doing it on Playergamer so I didn't think he was doing it anymore.

Fair enough.

You don't want to vote him... because he's third party? So are you the ugly or the good, OSG?

There's a 2/3 chance that he is gonna help town. Along with whatever chance there is that he was telling the truth about the gambit.

The third parties aren't going to help town unless it helps them. They're going to need some townies to die in order to make it to D4. Killing townies doesn't seem very helpful for town. At all.

[Peradon]

Silthuri: I was asking that because I'm not familiar with you, and knowing how much experience someone has will help inform me of some of your motives.

[origamiscienceguy]

Persus13, if the good/ugly survive when the town wins, but it is not day 4 yet, will they win? It seems logical as there will be no more threats to them.

[Teneb]

Persus13, if the good/ugly survive when the town wins, but it is not day 4 yet, will they win? It seems logical as there will be no more threats to them.

The Good and Ugly only win if they both survive until D4. They automatically lose if the game ends before that. The Bad wins if both the Good and Ugly are dead or if they survive until the end, regardless of when that end is. If anything, the Good and Ugly are anti-town until D4. The Bad is more of a wild card. There is no incentive for the Good and Ugly to try and find scum before they win. If anything, the Bad would want to win the game fast.

[4maskwolf]

...

Screw you guys and your stupid extension.  Seriously, we pretty much went straight back to a circlejerk around the same issues.  At least choose someone to lynch and lynch them, but don't waffle around.

I see no further reason to respond to the people who are accusing me: I have laid my hand on the table, you can believe my words or not at your own discretion.

Like, seriously though.  If you want to lynch me, lynch me, but at this point an extension is unneeded, since 8 people out of eleven had their votes in at the time of the extension, indicating that people have mostly made up their minds.

Alright, once I get over my irritation at the extension I'll try to do a bit more scumhunting for ya'll before day end, although I wish TDS were able to get online more often so that he could answer the questions I have for him, as my hands are tied with regards to pressuring other people with votes until he answers.