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[Eric Blank]

Enchanted iron is currently identical to normal iron, with magical creatures having a greater weakness to it (many have a weakness to iron anyway, but typically enchanted iron is even better). Trying to come up with something else to do with it or to make it more interesting...

[gnome]

Oh okay cool. Yeah maybe like - if I may offer a couple suggestions - you could have enchanted swords that have some sort of added magical effect to their damage - I'm not sure if you can implement burning damage into something that is made to do cutting damage but something along those lines would be interesting. Or maybe a shield that reflects certain magical attacks or maybe even arrows back in the general direction of the sender. And maybe some sort of anti-magic ability could be utilized - where by being hit by an enchanted weapon you lose your ability to use magic for a short period of time.


Also is there a way to use "sandstorm" without flinging my character around?

And is there any sort of concussive ability that can be used to knock people back? Maybe a "telekinesis" ability to throw objects that you aren't holding from somewhere in the immediate vicinity?  Or do spells get more powerful as a certain stat or ability goes up? I noticed that archery affects projectile attacks - but it'd be neat if there was also a way to do more powerful versions of those spells as you got more powerful rather than just throwing the projectiles more accurately. Like if "throw rock" eventually could be "throw gigantic boulder" I think that'd be pretty wicked. Maybe interlinking it with another attribute like focus? Or maybe just a gradual increase in the number of projectiles you fire in each cast. What exactly is "air burst" good for? And does throwing glass ever cut? Seems like it mostly just bruises people up and breaks bones.

[Madman198237]

Perhaps have the sword inflict a random (And I mean *random*) megabeast effect on a single body part with every hit?

[gnome]

One more question - how come sometimes I just suddenly start melting? Is this a side-effect of too much spellcasting? I do use a lot of fire, but there was no indication that I caught flame. I did throw a lot of magma at my opponent so maybe somehow it rubbed off on me? It wasn't showing in the menu however.

Ah nevermind I think I spent too much time close to huge amounts of fire. I just checked the temperature next to a burning hydra and it said "burning". So that makes sense.

Also what's the difference between thunder and lightning?

It seems like fire might be a tiny bit overpowered because like - most creatures burn. It's virtually useless against a bronze colossus but all other creatures it's basically a death sentence. I think the main reason however is because that most creatures when on fire remain still and do not attack. Perhaps this is a result of pain/shock, I'm not sure. I've never been able to step to a hydra before and right now I'm just slowly melting one in a cave because every time he gets unlit I just light him again and he does not move from that spot until his tissues are burnt away. The only downside to fire is that you don't get credit for killing anyone who burned to death.

[pikachu17]

Oh okay cool. Yeah maybe like - if I may offer a couple suggestions - you could have enchanted swords that have some sort of added magical effect to their damage - I'm not sure if you can implement burning damage into something that is made to do cutting damage but something along those lines would be interesting. Or maybe a shield that reflects certain magical attacks or maybe even arrows back in the general direction of the sender. And maybe some sort of anti-magic ability could be utilized - where by being hit by an enchanted weapon you lose your ability to use magic for a short period of time.


Also is there a way to use "sandstorm" without flinging my character around?

And is there any sort of concussive ability that can be used to knock people back? Maybe a "telekinesis" ability to throw objects that you aren't holding from somewhere in the immediate vicinity?  Or do spells get more powerful as a certain stat or ability goes up? I noticed that archery affects projectile attacks - but it'd be neat if there was also a way to do more powerful versions of those spells as you got more powerful rather than just throwing the projectiles more accurately. Like if "throw rock" eventually could be "throw gigantic boulder" I think that'd be pretty wicked. Maybe interlinking it with another attribute like focus? Or maybe just a gradual increase in the number of projectiles you fire in each cast. What exactly is "air burst" good for? And does throwing glass ever cut? Seems like it mostly just bruises people up and breaks bones.

Many of these can't be implemented in DF as it is now, but the Magic Releases may eventually make some of this possible.

[gnome]

Oh okay cool. Yeah maybe like - if I may offer a couple suggestions - you could have enchanted swords that have some sort of added magical effect to their damage - I'm not sure if you can implement burning damage into something that is made to do cutting damage but something along those lines would be interesting. Or maybe a shield that reflects certain magical attacks or maybe even arrows back in the general direction of the sender. And maybe some sort of anti-magic ability could be utilized - where by being hit by an enchanted weapon you lose your ability to use magic for a short period of time.


Also is there a way to use "sandstorm" without flinging my character around?

And is there any sort of concussive ability that can be used to knock people back? Maybe a "telekinesis" ability to throw objects that you aren't holding from somewhere in the immediate vicinity?  Or do spells get more powerful as a certain stat or ability goes up? I noticed that archery affects projectile attacks - but it'd be neat if there was also a way to do more powerful versions of those spells as you got more powerful rather than just throwing the projectiles more accurately. Like if "throw rock" eventually could be "throw gigantic boulder" I think that'd be pretty wicked. Maybe interlinking it with another attribute like focus? Or maybe just a gradual increase in the number of projectiles you fire in each cast. What exactly is "air burst" good for? And does throwing glass ever cut? Seems like it mostly just bruises people up and breaks bones.

Many of these can't be implemented in DF as it is now, but the Magic Releases may eventually make some of this possible.

I figured that might be the case with a lot of it - I'm obviously very much looking forward to the magic update - even if it takes over a year for it to arrive. It sounds like Toady has a lot to think about since a lot of the things he's suggesting will need a complete rewrite of many core mechanics (multiple dimensions, world-altering stuff, dynamic magic rules). Can't rush genius though.

[Eric Blank]

Yeah, but itll be fun when it arrives.

I cant do actual enchanted weapons until then and otherwise would have to use dfhack (i honestly dont know how to code and that would also mean any part of the mod relying on it would have to be postponed with each df update until a stable version of dfhack is available, and be subject to hackery related issues if any come up)

I can make special weapons and materials with unique properties though. Shields that block more successfully, swords that double as ranged weapons for unique ammo, and metals that are lighter or denser than average or specalized for use against specific night creatures. That sort of thing.

Fire glass and enchanted ice are already in the mod, though i havent made a reaction to produce them in game and their properties arent especially interesting just yet. Enchanted ice just melts at a really low temperature (around the range of a scorching biome, intended as an indicatornof when your surroundings are becoming dangerously warm like if youre fighting a dragon) and fire glass has a constant warm temperature and effectiveness against angelic/divine beings (of which there are few)

I think ill go ahead and make a couple of these things, and you guys could let me know how useful they are to you

[gnome]

Sweet. Thanks for this entertaining curiosity while I twiddle my thumbs waiting for that artifact update to come out.




it doesn't appear that I can use "water sphere" on myself - i was hoping that would put me out when I'm on fire.


You were talking about costs of transformation earlier - I think post-transformation sickness is actually a neat idea. It might be helpful to make it take time like the summoner version as well, so that a quick second chance isn't quite so feasible (speaking strictly of the instant transformations). Rapid Reformation could also use a bit of a nerf - I almost wanna echo Toady's idea about certain things costing blood. If you came out of Rapid Reformation fully healed but "faint" because of blood loss, I think that'd be a pretty legit cost for the procedure.

[Eric Blank]

Yeah water sphere was meant strictly as an attack. Ill see if i can get something that will reliably douse your flames, i dunno of thats possible with how pesky fire can be. I know it wont help the melting at all, i dunno what will once that starts

Im still toying with the transformation stuff and i like your suggestions, those are great ideas. The reformation bleeding is exactly the issue ive been having; the syndrome doesnt appear to be taking effect more often than not once you transform back, no matter how persistent and obvious the symptoms should be, and im not sure why.

[gnome]

I think perhaps I figured out my melting issue - I hadn't noticed that on occasion while say - fighting a magma covered colossus - my clothes would catch fire indicated by the "!!" surrounding them in my inventory. I guess you don't need to directly be hit by flame in order to have what you're wearing catch fire - which is realistic considering I don't think you could stand too close to large amounts of magma in real life. So yeah now when fighting hot things I am also simultaneously giving them an unintentional strip tease.

Well that was unexpected, I got a bronze colossus to melt. I had been beating the everloving hell out of his upper torso with a hammer before it happened though so I'm guessing that his structural integrity was already low and that just happened to do the last bit of damage. Normally I can cover them from head to toe with magma and they only slightly get burned. Metal bolt seems to be the most effective against them for obvious reasons - every hit guaranteed a fracture.

Update: melting colossuses is actually much more possible when transformed into a fire demon, since you can hurl obscene amounts of magma with the natural ability.


After I fast traveled my hammer turned into "molten bronze covered in chromite". Interesting.

Some sort of defense against being turned into a kobold would be nifty as hell.

[Eric Blank]

So yeah now when fighting hot things I am also simultaneously giving them an unintentional strip tease.

It is terrifying

Well that was unexpected, I got a bronze colossus to melt. I had been beating the everloving hell out of his upper torso with a hammer before it happened though so I'm guessing that his structural integrity was already low and that just happened to do the last bit of damage. Normally I can cover them from head to toe with magma and they only slightly get burned. Metal bolt seems to be the most effective against them for obvious reasons - every hit guaranteed a fracture.

Metal bolt is pretty effective yeah. Think it should be a less dense metal for balance?

Update: melting colossuses is actually much more possible when transformed into a fire demon, since you can hurl obscene amounts of magma with the natural ability.

I love this strategic approach youre taking to using magic against those weakest to it.

After I fast traveled my hammer turned into "molten bronze covered in chromite". Interesting.

Thats probably not safe to hold onto...

Some sort of defense against being turned into a kobold would be nifty as hell.

Already done as as part of the new school of magic. Youll probably have to apply it every time you stop fast travelling just because adventure mode likes to end syndromes/interactions with timers on travel/sleep but it will prevent being transformed against your will.

[gnome]

I actually think metal bolt actually might be okay - it does quite a bit of damage but not before I really pack some throwing skill into it. I wouldn't be opposed to some experimentation though, it seems pretty great for breaking bones and the like but it's difficult to get a killing blow with it. Seems more like a way of disabling opponents, or in the case of a colossus reliably chipping away at their overall structural integrity. What I'm wondering is if there's a way to get glass/ice spike to cut or penetrate targets, as it stands it seems to only bruise them. Same with the metal bolt actually even when doing massive internal damage it only ever manages to bruise the outer muscle, I think I've only seen a single instance in which something was effectively "torn apart". Quite a few crushed bits though. Lots of fun as a way of disabling a gang of bandits who is rushing me, or alternatively fleeing in separate directions.


And yeah that's what I enjoy about this is that it sort of adds a tactical "control" over the battlefield that sometimes is immensely useful in otherwise lethal situations - but most of the time not so much that it's absolutely foolproof.

A couple of times I have used that "plant flesh" spell on giants to make their tough hides easier to cut through. I thought that was an interesting approach. I tried doing that on a colossus but it turns out they don't have skin. Or blood, come to think of it. Metal skin might be a neat way to go, for a self-cast or a buff for companions.

I just had a situation earlier in which I got into a fight with a dragon in a tiny cave, and naturally to avoid burning I did the fire demon transformation thing - and I was curious how quickly I could get a dragon to burn with magma and the like, if at all. So I went about doing my thing we had a back and forth with fire-based attacks that were ineffective against one another until eventually he just suffocated to death. At this point I was basically missing all my limbs except maybe half an arm or a leg so I inched my way back out the entrance. I don't know what exactly triggered this but for some reason right after I stepped out the cave exploded. Like - a plume of magma exploded out of the entrance and covered me in magma and heated me up so much that no matter how far I crawled I left a trail of fire everywhere I went - until I eventually found a stagnant pond, which brought forth a great cloud of steam which billowed around for awhile - until the pond turned brown and "murky" for some reason, and right in that very moment I zapped back into my original form. So basically I created a volcano? Not sure I understand this since hurling magma doesn't seem to create an instance of magma on the ground, only on the target upon contact. Which is pretty hilarious though, by the way - that until they're officially "on fire" targets will run around doing their thing like normal, when all of a sudden they start smoking. Some targets take longer than others, probably due to what they're wearing.






Also neat! I'm looking forward to trying out the next version.

[Eric Blank]

I have no idea how that explosion could have happened.

but yeah, the solid glob material emission is like shooting a sphere or something; no sharp edges, so there's very little chance to cut anything except from excessive force, if the material is dense enough (like slade) and the plant flesh spell should make creatures tougher; it changes their endurance and toughness attributes, but doesnt change the material they're made of (cant do that without transformations at the moment). The only attribute that goes down is recuperation, and the spell of course halts bleeding so that cant allow you to bleed them out until the spell wears off. So I would expect them to be getting tougher, not weaker, if thats happening then something is wrong.

It's also meant for defense, but trying to kill somebody by making them tougher is definitely an interesting strategy :v

[gnome]

I have no idea how that explosion could have happened.

but yeah, the solid glob material emission is like shooting a sphere or something; no sharp edges, so there's very little chance to cut anything except from excessive force, if the material is dense enough (like slade) and the plant flesh spell should make creatures tougher; it changes their endurance and toughness attributes, but doesnt change the material they're made of (cant do that without transformations at the moment). The only attribute that goes down is recuperation, and the spell of course halts bleeding so that cant allow you to bleed them out until the spell wears off. So I would expect them to be getting tougher, not weaker, if thats happening then something is wrong.

It's also meant for defense, but trying to kill somebody by making them tougher is definitely an interesting strategy :v

Ohhh okay I see - I could have sworn that by using it on a Giant I was more easily doing nerve damage with every strike. Sounds like it was just a series of good rolls though. After the first one probably just a domino effect. I figured it was meant as an armor thing but I was also curious as to maybe if a giant's skin was merely thicker or denser - if the latter then converting it to a standardized wood material would have been an advantage in my eyes.

But yeah I was pouring through the RAWs an the wiki a bit and I see what you mean. The available types of projectile attacks don't cover anything sharp/edged.

[Eric Blank]

When i get around to curse magics, spells to weaken an opponent or afflict them with a lasting curse will definitely be a thing, its one of the core principals of that class.

Ive created some basic enchanted items, tools that have greater carrying capacity (they cant reduce the weight of items, just haul a lot more of them), weapons with more powerful attacks or useful properties, and an armor of shielding enchantment that makes an item cover the absolute maximum it can with up/down/ubstep tokens and coverage. Those are the most complex item enchantments can be at the moment, but im ensuring theyre pretty powerful for their item type so that theyre at least useful.
Ive also created a greater range of enchanted materials that offer unique properties for various purposes. Might be able combine them into adamantine as well, dunno if thats too OP.

On the transformations front im still testing the syndromes, but the transformations themselves work great. I made a huge range of options for what you can turn into, but well see if that ends up being way too many cdi actions in the players menu. Because there is a lot...