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[majikero]

I only used that 20 km range exactly once and got 3 hits. Its honestly not that useful.

Also most of my battles with a BB always seems to come down to BBs. Seems like the cruisers like to shoot at battleships, battleships like to shoot cruisers and the carrier likes to torp destroyers.

[Sonlirain]

Cruisers are actually stupidly good abaisnt BBs with their rapid fire guns capable of setting people on fire.

One salvo.
Enemy ship uses his repair crew.
Fire a salvo again and set him on fire so he can burn for a crapton of damage over the next minute.

Also cleaveland has serious problems with penetrating other cruisers of its tier so it pretty much has to use HE.

[Jopax]

Guys you're not supposed to fight at 20kms in BB's. That shit is for cruisers who have the volume of fire that allows them misses. BB's really shine at ranges between 10 and 15 km's, atleast the lower tier ones I've been in. And they're not that innacurate, on average, if I or the team don't fuck up and I manage to live trough the match I'll score atleast 20 hits, and yeah, that's only a percentage of all shots fired, and probably not that high but it's enough once converted into damage.

[ukulele]

I think its the other way around the only place BBs have to really outplay other is at range, at mid range a decent cruiser can equal you, with superior firepower and mobility, at close range a decent BB can torp you no stop out of sight range, its at long range when you can outplay any other ship and while 20 hits in a BB might sound good to you try playing at range and with some decent positioning you can get avobe 50 hits. BBs are obviously not DPM machines so the longer you can take potshots at the enemy the better and i still think that the aiming spread is kind of broken shooting at something at 10km has almost the same spread as shooting something at 20, only at really close distances you can guarantee above 50% hits and i dont think its worth the risk.

[Jopax]

See, a cruiser can much more easily dodge your shots at distances over 15 km's, so the lower the travel time the higher the chance your shots will connect. Longer ranges are for engaging other BB's if possible, but even then they'll have a couple of seconds to react which is usually not something you want to give them.

And around 20 hits is average, if I manage to live to the end of the match, which usually isn't a problem unless a CV or a DD decides to fuck with me I can go much higher, BB's have repair and high health for a reason, you're meant to tank shots, especially if it means you can score more hits.

[Cthulhu]

At close range you only need two or three citadels to sink a cruiser, it's really a matter of how you're shooting and how accurate you are.  At the same time the other guy's probably launched at least two torpedos into your side so it's probably going to end up even at best.

[Flying Dice]

Jopax is exactly right. If you're fighting at long range as a BB, you're doing it wrong. You don't have the rate or volume of fire for that to be practical -- you've got secondary batteries for a reason. The main problem with low-tier BBs, I'd say, is that their secondaries aren't long-ranged enough. What you want is to get close enough for your secondaries to engage while you shotgun enemy CAs and BBs.

It's not historical, natch, but the game's an arcade title.

[Sonlirain]

At low tier while your secondaries have what? 3 m of range? Your main guns aren't thatm uch better with 9-10 km ranges.
So at tier 3 you are basicly forced to shtgun people at close range and pray to god japanese DDs don't want to target you because you are fresh out of luck if that happens.

[Flying Dice]

I'll just put it out there and say that if you're getting repeatedly torpedoed from longer than ~4-5 km out, that's not the game's fault.

Perfect example, actually. While I was grinding up my Myogi, I ended up in a super-close range knife fight with a Tenryuu, a Phoenix, and an Isokaze, less than a kilometer away from me in a narrow space when they all came around an island at the same time I did. There was also a New York shelling me from 6-7 km away.

I killed all three of those light ships before I'd finished reloading after my second round of shots. I only ate three torpedoes despite taking full spreads from three ships at knife range, and didn't die until the New York managed a citadel hit. Two of the three kills were from my secondaries, and they accounted for close to a third of my total damage that game.

Not denying that the Kawachi and SouCar suck, though the same's true for every line-entry ship except the St. Louis. That doesn't change the fact that, regardless of what you might want to be reality, trying to play BBs like snipers makes you a burden for your team and reduces your own income and exp gain because long range hit ratios don't work out so well when you only fire 6-12 shells per minute total (rather than per gun).

[Sonlirain]

Thing is. The japanese tier 2 DD has a detection range of... 5.6 km

You have to be almost ramming it to see it unless it fires and torps launched from an unseen source are usually spotted pretty late.
So late in fact that you mght as well give up because you will be hit anyway.

Also in all the time i played i got only 2 kills with secondary batteries.

1 - Killed a cruiser i didn't notice because i was tunnel visioning into anotehr BB.
However my teammate wanted that kill so he... teamkilled me with torps at point blank range.
Yanno revenge, teaching me a lesson and all that jazz.

2 - Got killed by a cruiser but my secondaries set him on fire when his repair team was on cooldown.

[Flying Dice]

You're missing the main point. If you sail at the same speed along the same heading long enough for stealth-launched torps to be accurate, you deserve to get torp'd. If you were in open water with no smoke or islands nearby and you didn't detect the DD that hit you, it's your fault.

Japanese DDs also fall off hard past the Minekaze, because the range at which a torpedo becomes visible is related to its maximum range. The general gist is that 10km and 20km torps are detected at 2 km out (as opposed to less than a kilometer for shorter-ranged ones, though IJN torps typically are still detected slightly farther out), which is enough for even a braindead moron to have a decent chance of dodging.

On the other side of things, if you drive your BB up into a smokescreen or close to an island when there are undetected enemy DDs out there, you also deserve everything you get. 

[Aklyon]

Apparently theres going to be an Arpeggio thing.

Which is awesome, even if the first thing people said over there was complaints its not poi.

[Sonlirain]

You're missing the main point. If you sail at the same speed along the same heading long enough for stealth-launched torps to be accurate, you deserve to get torp'd. If you were in open water with no smoke or islands nearby and you didn't detect the DD that hit you, it's your fault.

I can play the Umikaze lob torps and have a fair chance each rount to NOT get spotted the entire game. Especially on open water maps.

BECAUSE:
- Launching torps does not count as shooting so i can drop a set of torps every couple seconds and not care some will hit sooner or later.
- You can only be spotted from 5.6 km so in the open waters you are basically the apex pradator to the point of smoke being actually harmful to you because it tells the enemy team where you more or less are (as opposed to being permanently invisible). Hell you can even spot higher tier DDs before they spot you and avoid them.
- You have to move more or less straight to get anywhere and merely bobbing slightely left and right won't help against a torp wall aimed at the general area you are heading towards.
And of course battleships have really bad rudder shift time so once you spot the torps its already too late.

[Flying Dice]

You're missing the main point. If you sail at the same speed along the same heading long enough for stealth-launched torps to be accurate, you deserve to get torp'd. If you were in open water with no smoke or islands nearby and you didn't detect the DD that hit you, it's your fault.

I can play the Umikaze lob torps and have a fair chance each rount to NOT get spotted the entire game. Especially on open water maps.

BECAUSE:
- Launching torps does not count as shooting so i can drop a set of torps every couple seconds and not care some will hit sooner or later. Irrelevant.
- You can only be spotted from 5.6 km so in the open waters you are basically the apex pradator to the point of smoke being actually harmful to you because it tells the enemy team where you more or less are (as opposed to being permanently invisible). Hell you can even spot higher tier DDs before they spot you and avoid them. Irrelevant.
- You have to move more or less straight to get anywhere and merely bobbing slightely left and right won't help against a torp wall aimed at the general area you are heading towards.
And of course battleships have really bad rudder shift time so once you spot the torps its already too late.

Not true at all. At the ranges you're talking about, even a minor deviation in speed or heading is enough to make them either miss or be much less accurate (and thus making it easier to dodge). It's the exact same thing as juking long range gunnery fire (and yes, you can do that in a BB if you're paying attention instead of playing one-handed while scoped in on the ship you're shooting at).

There are a number of assumptions here:

1. As a BB, you're going to be at the front of the pack with no planes or lighter ships ahead of you to spot targets. If you play like this, it's your fault when you die.

2. As a BB, you're going lone wolf. You deserve every death you get.

3. As a BB, you're spending so much time in binocular view during your reloads that you can't bother to make course adjustments between shots and don't pay attention to last-spotted locations on the map.

4. As a BB, after you spot that first spread, you don't go bow or stern on to where they came from, either to track the DD down or to open the gap and let someone else find the bugger while improving your own chances to evade and decreasing his accuracy.

That third one in particular is usually the culprit when someone whines about torpedoes, both enemy and friendly. I can honestly say that I have never once been hit by a spread of torpedoes fired in open water from sufficient range that I couldn't detect the DD that fired them. Been shotgunned as I came through a channel, yes. Been plastered by torp bombers, natch. Been taken down by a DD with the guts to get in close while I was in a close-range gunnery duel with other ships, also yes. Died mutual deaths in my DDs when dueling in smoke clouds, heh, yes.

There's no getting around it. If you consistently get hit by DD/CL torpedoes when you're in open water and haven't spotted the ship that launched them, you're bad at the game. I'm just going to be blunt about it. It's almost the same thing as people in WoT complaining about arty when they die after sitting in the same position for three minutes, except that they died to an FV403 scooting around popping shots at people from less than 200m away. That "oh shit" realization that you're not going to dodge is the sort of thing associated with seeing a CL spin their tail around or a DD go side-on when they're 1-2km away, not from seeing the third long range spread coming in from the same place while you're still going in a straight line. :|

[Aklyon]

I got hit by a couple of torpedoes earlier in the SC, but that match was a bit ridiculous in the first place, what with 2/3rds the entire enemy team being destroyers, and that was out of roughly 16 torpedoes fired in my general direction.