Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[That Wolf]

Grek: I was using the book metaphor in response to LordBucket but it fits nicely into what I was talking about.

I think the immortality options will be immpossibilities, life extending very possible but if you lived for to long you would no longer want to live. I really think its that simple.
Your Ego isnt you. So sure pump a computer full of your ego and let your great grandchildren play chess with it, they will still treat it for what it its though. A computer.

I think before you try to become immortal, you should first accept that you are going to die so dont twiddle your thumbs waiting for the scientists make you a pill or load you into a usb.
Even then its inevetable because of the nature of the universe we live in.
Personaly I want to die. I want to see if there is anything behind the curtain.

i2amroy: who says its conscious though? Its just a replica of a rat chunk...

Surqimus: I agree

[i2amroy]

if you lived for to long you would no longer want to live. I really think its that simple.

I guess that's where we have to disagree. Personally I can't even begin to fathom how someone could ever look around them and think "I've seen enough, I don't think I'd like to see any more of the wonders out there". It's just not something that could conceivably ever work with my sense of curiosity.

I think before you try to become immortal, you should first accept that you are going to die so dont twiddle your thumbs waiting for the scientists make you a pill or load you into a usb.
Even then its inevetable because of the nature of the universe we live in.
Personaly I want to die. I want to see if there is anything behind the curtain.

Once again, I think that for the first time in history we actually have a shot at not dying. Technology has finally advanced to the point that it's conceivable that the younger people of today could hit the curve spot where technology to extend your life is becoming available at a rate of greater than 1 second per second. Only time will tell of course, but it's reached the point where it has an actual shot at happening. And sure, who knows if something is behind the curtain, but I'll take a certain existence over that of a unknown that has so far failed in every effort to prove it exists, no contest.

i2amroy: who says its conscious though? Its just a replica of a rat chunk...

My point is that it functioned identically to a duplicate biological rat chunk. If we then follow the widely held scientific of "everything that is psychological is biological", then that means you don't have to worry about it being "conscious". If we can create a model that functions identical in every way to a human biological one (including it's ability to grow, make new connections, and repair old ones), then it will automatically have the exact same psychological attributes as the biological brain (including it's ability of "consciousness").

Really if you think about it the point that we are able to identically model a human brain is going to be the one where we finally get some very good evidence to there being some sort of "soul" or not. If we copy a biological brain exactly and it functions identical to the human brain to the point where we can't tell the difference, that supports the idea that everything that you think is linked to your brain somehow, and would be against any sort of "nonphysical" thing powering it (or we somehow have managed to clone the "soul" into the copy as well). If, on the other hand, the exact duplicate model isn't able to function identical to the human brain, despite it being functionally identical, we would have pretty strong evidence that some nonphysical thing (like a "soul") would be an essential part of the brain.

[That Wolf]

I will agree that we wont know of the 'soul' and how a brain works untill we start making that stuff.

We do live in a chaotic universe though, and you cant evade mistakes, you cant ensure you stability.
You will fuck up and your loved ones will get hurt, you will hurt others and it will change your perspective.
I used to wish for immortality, things happened and I changed as a result of it, I no longer want it, sure I will take antibiotics and medicine to stop me dieing now, thats because I dont want to die right now, but I will want to.
Shit it crosses my mind every now and then 'suicide' but as a race its a really common thing to think. I wouldnt do it though.

I think as a race we need to die to let new life evolve, and even if you could transmit your 'soul' and consciousness into an adamantine super bot, you would become an ancient way of thinking and may be seen as barbaric techknowledgy and moraly wrong what you did millenia ago.
Chinas super psychics for example, humans are evolving into something else.
If you havnt heard of them its because they are chinese and the government takes them dead seriously funding with millions of dollars. Look them up dont ask for a citation

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Personally, I believe the self and the body are separate. This might change if/when I understand the brain better.

+1


Also I like how the rules directly say "respect others beliefs even if they are incorrect", I like how it assumes a right or wrong for spirituality

[That Wolf]

Personally, I believe the self and the body are separate. This might change if/when I understand the brain better.

+1


Also I like how the rules directly say "respect others beliefs even if they are incorrect", I like how it assumes a right or wrong for spirituality

Thats just in the opening.
Sure it can be seen as if their is a right or wrong because alot of people think they are right, so even if you believe that your beliefs are correct you could very well be wrong.
Please dont post here disputing the rules. You can pm me that.
Nobody else here has complained.
Please contribute,
Sorry for calling you a dick

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Wasn't trying to be

E: was just pointing out the rules assume a correct view

[Vilanat]

Personally, I believe the self and the body are separate. This might change if/when I understand the brain better.

+1


Also I like how the rules directly say "respect others beliefs even if they are incorrect", I like how it assumes a right or wrong for spirituality

What is the "Self" that you think is separate? what are his characteristic/qualities? what is it composed from?

[Grek]

I really don't know how to respond, That Wolf. First, a denial that my ego is me. If I am not my ego, then what is it? Then an encouragement to accept death, which is frankly super offensive. It's basically the same thing as saying "you should die". Then an unsupported statement that death is inevitable anyways. Then... Chinese psychics? What.

That Wolf, if you're going to have a rule that says to respect other people's beliefs, how about showing the most basic sort of respect there is for a belief you disagree with and explain why it is wrong instead of just baldly contradicting it? Why do you think death is inevitable? What evidence do you have, which I do not, which makes it so that you doubt where I believe?. What error in my thought is causing us to disagree?

[Orange Wizard]

Chinas super psychics for example, humans are evolving into something else.
If you havnt heard of them its because they are chinese and the government takes them dead seriously funding with millions of dollars. Look them up dont ask for a citation

Sounds trustworthy.

[Sergarr]

Chinas super psychics

okay

[scrdest]

Chinas super psychics for example, humans are evolving into something else.
If you havnt heard of them its because they are chinese and the government takes them dead seriously funding with millions of dollars. Look them up dont ask for a citation

CIA and USSR spent boatloads of cash funding psychic research back around the Sixties (plus/minus a decade). They don't, anymore, to our knowledge. Which might be somewhat slightly kinda sorta related to the fact that it's not a real thing and so the money is wasted.

Communist Party of China has a disproportionate number of global warming denialism too, ferex, and it's not like power necessarily goes hand in hand with rationality - just ask... well, half the dictators ever.

[That Wolf]

Grek: how about I ask you a question.
What makes you think you wont die?

You also never stated your beliefs so how could I be disrespectful toward them?
Its like talking about clouds and you getting offended at me.
Death is inevetible, I didnt make it this way and I am sorry if what I have said has offended you.

scrdest: yeah true, I will agree with you. As far as global warming goes its not entirely accurate, its only part of the problem. A correct statment is climate change, its not just getting warmer.

Everybody you know will die, you will die, and your internet fingerprint will most probably also be destroyed, nothing lasts forever.
If your belief is that you will never die, please explain your method and share it here. Many seem to want it

[Grek]

As I mentioned back on the first page of this thread, I've signed up for cryonics. When I am close to death, representatives from Alcor are going to remove my head from my body, take it to a storage facility and preserve it in a metal tank full of liquid nitrogen. Then, in the future when science has hopefully advanced to the point where the contents of a brain can be translated from a preserved carbon medium to a silicon medium, I will find myself awakening in a digital or robotic form, having been effectively resurrected. Now, it's possible that this won't work out (due to my brain not being sufficiently preserved, or life on earth ending before technology advances to that point) but there's no known physical principle ruling it out. And hey, it's better odds than cremation or a burial as far as survival goes.

As far as offense goes: I am not offended that you think death is inevitable. I am offended that you keep posting to say that death is inevitable and therefore I should let myself, my loved ones and everyone I've ever known die without doing anything about it. Because you keep posting statements to the effect that me dying is natural and right, me avoiding death is unnatural and wrong, I am a bad person for wanting to not die, and that even if I did live into the future, people there wouldn't want me or anyone like me to continue existing. Maybe that's not what you meant, but it is what you said.

[i2amroy]

As far as offense goes: I am not offended that you think death is inevitable. I am offended that you keep posting to say that death is inevitable and therefore I should let myself, my loved ones and everyone I've ever known die without doing anything about it. Because you keep posting statements to the effect that me dying is natural and right, me avoiding death is unnatural and wrong, I am a bad person for wanting to not die, and that even if I did live into the future, people there wouldn't want me or anyone like me to continue existing. Maybe that's not what you meant, but it is what you said.

Yeah, I'm sorta getting this vibe as well. Personally I haven't seen any reasons you've put forth that have been valid reasons for why everyone is going to die other than "because that's always happened in the past". I mean sure, I know that I personally might not make the curve point where we are on average extending your life by more than one second per second, but I can see the point where the curve exists in the future, and I'm not seeing anything out there that would impede it from eventually coming to pass in the future.

And even if you want to play the long game I'd be just as willing to argue that there will be some day, billions of years from now, when we crack the universe to save it from its own end. When we jump from this universe to the next one to dodge the universe's end, or drain energy from the infinite area beyond what we can see to power the little that we can, or hell, maybe we all evacuate the future and take refuge in the past through time machines. There are plenty of ways that aren't prohibited by (current) physics to essentially "turn back the clock" on the universe's lifespan and buy ourselves even more time to work on solving the problem of the universe's eventual demise.

And the reason I can say these things is because I've done the research. I've read papers on cryogenics and looked into the logistics of it, I've spoken about medical prosthetics with college professors and PHD's in that field, I've listened to lectures on what we might hypothetically do to stop the end of the universe, and I've attempted to stay up to date on a large number of current neuroscience and computer projects that would be involved in a brain modeling and uploading project. I'm not saying these things because of some misplaced faith in future technology as some sort of "god" or something, but because I know what the technology can do already, and I've seen the developments and applications researchers are working on for the future, and anyone can see the combined implications of those technologies when they've accessed all the data that I have. The fact of the matter is that there are scientists working right now, as we speak, on technologies that, working together, could end death.

[WillowLuman]

I think as a race we need to die to let new life evolve

Also, this kind of rubs me the wrong way. What have we done that voids our collective right to exist?