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Author Topic: What would it take to make DF a MMO?  (Read 1951 times)

Gulfd'An

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Re: What would it take to make DF a MMO?
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2008, 09:54:00 pm »

lol i think there should be over sized novelty mugs that work way better for bar fights and have a waranty of not breaking for 25 days or your money back
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wallish

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Re: What would it take to make DF a MMO?
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2008, 07:32:00 pm »

Ahhh.. massive idea explosion!  Why don't we (the community) with Toady's permission make a DF based MUD!?  It'd be perfect.  In case some of you haven't played a MUD before, they're basically text based multiplayer games (MUD: Multi User Dungeon).  We could incorporate DF fighting, DF crafting, player owned fortresses that can be dug out and expanded, mining/woodcutting/fishing/all of the current DF skills, Z-levels, EVERYTHING (except graphics, of course).  It'd be DF fortress mode where each person is a dwarf.If a player logs off they're dwarf/human/whatever disappears, as is standard MUD flair.

Nobles:
Players are elected into positions of nobility by the other fortress members.  As mentioned in the first post, fortresses could be like guilds that can be joined. There could even be NPC nobles. Nobles could commission things to be built (these are like quests).  If a player accepts this commission, they must finish it or else face the punishment (fine/jail).

Skill-based system:
This is a MUD term that usually means that players level up by using skills, not necessarily by fighting/grinding.  Think of the Elder Scrolls series as an example, I suppose.  Player makes a dwarf (or human or elf, or even goblin/kobold?) and puts their 10 skill points into their choices.  Just like DF the skill levels determine the players type.  If Urist is now a miner, he starts with a basic pick.  Mining and using the pick will slowly increase his "Mining" ability (let's say x/100 of level y/100)

Fighting:
Most of this is practically planned out FOR us.  Player starts the fight, statistics such as strength/agility/etc determine ability to fight/dodge/hit.

Buildings:
In MUDS, each "room" can be of undetermined size.  Could be a room, could be a house, whatever.  But if a player with the architect skill has the materials required to build a workshop, they can be commissioned to build one in that room.  Then, if a player enters that room they'll see something like "A carpenter's workshop is here" or whatever.  A carpenter could then use that workshop to build things.  Downsides of public workshops is that they're public and you might have to wait to use it.  This encourages players to want to become successful and get their own workshops.

Economy:
Don't like sleeping in the public barracks?  Too crowded?  No place to store your things?  Then get some money!  Get an architect to build you a house.  Rent out a space and buy a cabinet to store your goods!  Successful players can build things out of materials obtained by other players and/or themselves.  Goods can be sold to players (for variable amounts) or to certain NPCs (for a huge loss).
Players could even take over the role of merchants travelling between fortresses to trade goods!

I could go on, but I think you all get the idea now.  We  have a lot of coders in this community that are just DYING to do something DF related.  With Toady's blessing/permission I think we could really get something good going.

PS: MUDS generally do not use up much server strength, especially if we hardly ever have more than 50 people on (which can be a large amount for most MUDS)

PPS: for a good introductory MUD experience (in my opinion) check out materiamagica.com and find a MUD client (or I think they have a browser integrated java one)

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Greiger

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Re: What would it take to make DF a MMO?
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2008, 11:27:00 am »

Hmm, a mud may be rather interesting.  I've played a mud that had player ability to make rooms as well (maybe miners).

But there's probably a good chance that the thing would spend alot of time empty as we all play the new army arc DF.

Heck during the Uvellakish wurm group everyone spontaneously vanished when the z-axis version came out. (not that I can blame them)

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WillNZ

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Re: What would it take to make DF a MMO?
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2008, 12:47:00 pm »

I'm actually perfectly satisfied with the fortress trading system now. If I could just get people to implement a WORLD trading system, I'd be really happy. I don't need these fancy schmancy things which require a "server".
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wallish

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Re: What would it take to make DF a MMO?
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2008, 02:07:00 pm »

quote:
Hmm, a mud may be rather interesting. I've played a mud that had player ability to make rooms as well (maybe miners).

But there's probably a good chance that the thing would spend alot of time empty as we all play the new army arc DF.

Heck during the Uvellakish wurm group everyone spontaneously vanished when the z-axis version came out. (not that I can blame them)  


Yeah, it'd probably be empty for a bit, but I wouldn't expect it to stay empty.  One of the main points of a DF MUD is that it is something (relatively) easy to make with the talent pool we have available, and it is something the entire DF community could get behind.

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Sergius

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Re: What would it take to make DF a MMO?
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2008, 04:04:00 pm »

The idea of disconnected play with a central "coordinating" server is not such a bad one, and may possibly even be implemented with almost no change to normal single-player gameplay code.

If that would ever happen, it would need some rules, such as:

-Anyone who joins the server needs to set some flags, such as whether you accept immigrant, caravans, or sieges from other players. (if you can't accept them you can't send them either) and once you turn it on and submit it, you can't change it back. AI caravans and sieges would still happen as normal.

-A fortress can only send one kind of "delegation" each year (be it a siege or a caravan?). Conversely, a fortress can only get one of each type each year. One player siege *and* one player caravan. This in addition to any AI visitors. Now, WHOSE year is that, it would depend, I suppose... if you play 10 years in a single sitting you can send 10 caravans, but if you send them to the same person who plays one year per day, you can expect to wait a lot for all 10 caravans to return. (see below)

-All of these are exactly like an AI visit, it's computer controlled etc, only the actual content of the delegation is decided by the player.

-Since each player builds his fortress in HIS OWN TIME, some kind of balancing act with all the different playing times would need to be done. Say you send a siege to a player and that player never logs in again. Your siege will never get the work done, and your soldiers would never get back. A solution may be to allow any player to withdraw any such envoy at any time unless the target has already received it. (now what happens if the victim "accepts" the attack, saves his game and logs off forever? some kind of hard time limit and it gets called off or some automatic victory is rolled?)

-As above, but with world dates. How can you reconcile that an advanced fortress in year 1065 can attack a tiny fortress hamlet that's just starting up in year 1052? Some kind of handicap, or limitation (you can't attack that guy!) or a limit on the amount of troops (and equipment value) you can send? Maybe some total point value computed in the same way as the embark screen: send one dwarf with lots of skills and masterpiece armor (he's probably still going down, but may inflict lots of enemy casualties... or maybe he'll fall with the first bolt that a dabbling hunter shoots at him), or send many weaker dwarfs with "well-crafted" normal armor.

-Exploits: any kind of cheating to do these things should be avoided, not in a heavy handed way... just try to avoid the situations where cheating would happen. For example, if there was a handicap or disadvantages to a more powerful player attacking a less powerful one, this could be abused into some kind of easy experience/items cheat for the weak player. OTOH simply forcing the powerful player to send a small army to the small fort would not allow that.

Many more of these things would need to be ironed out. For all those naysayers, remember that this is pretty much unchanged single-player Dwarf Fortress, except with the possibility that someone else may decide to send a custom (balanced and non-cheating?) caravan/siege your way (and vice versa). Or you can just disable all interaction and simply "visit" other fortresses without interacting (how about in adventure mode?), or simply decide to turn it off entirely and play it with your own randomly generated world in your hard drive (status quo).

Anyway, even if this never gets done it's still food for thought. Maybe a nice brainstorming for anyone who wants to make his own "Klingon Space Fortress" clone in the future.

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wallish

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Re: What would it take to make DF a MMO?
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2008, 04:15:00 pm »

You mean almost like a centralized (or not) PBM (Play-By-Mail) system?
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