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Voting closed: August 20, 2015, 08:45:24 pm

[Taupe]

They didn't believe me.

They thought I was mad.

Now they see. Now they SEE!

*jetpacks away*

Yeah, there's some seriously strange things that happen with the save.

I am so, so sorry. I have seen the truth!

Forgive me, Triaxx, forgive me...

For one, I believe there is some areas that aren't floored yet, so cacti springing to life could be an issue. I'll try to fix that before anything else when I play again, which should be thursday. While I am sorta mad that this is happening, at least I'm aware of the problems, and I should be able to keep up with the schedule. My initial plans were to get up early (like 6 am), get some piano practice done, eat, clean some shit around the house and eat again, then play in the afternoon. Obviously now, I know that I should just let the game run in the background from the second I wake up. I'll simply check in here and then, queue some more designations, and go on with my life. Saving every two weeks or so is definitely up there on the list of things to do.

I tried to scroll down and make every single part of the moat unified with granite blocks. Because the save explodes when using DFhack and refuses to load, utilities are out of the way for me. So hey, watch me go as i stop caring and build a wall made of anything stone-like that happens to lie around this time.

As far as I can tell, another issue might be that we started this succession game when DF2014 just came out, and eventually upgraded through 24 different builds in the process, which is BOUND to suck as far as file integrity goes. We should also compile a list of levers and gizmos around the fortress, and indicate what they actually do. This could be valuable in the long run since we seem to be planning some heavy engineering, and labelling shit such as ''the mystery lever ahahahahahahahah'' ''nobody knows what it does'' is going to magmatize someone important down the line...

all and out, some minor setbacks, but we learn to deal with this capricious fortress as we go. May this turn not be the last.

[Zuglarkun]

When playing with the save, and dealing with the shitty FPS, I kept hoping that a siege or forgotten beast would show up and kill off over half of the 200 or so population, then at least things would be much easier on the FPS. But I didn't dare to pull the trigger.

But yeah not surprised with what is happening. I also had DFhack disabled for the entire length of my turn. Like yourself, I suspect there is some shit going down in the save file, since it was ported from 40.12/40.13 which comes down to about 10+ builds ago. (Not to mention the tinkering done by Captain Archmage, but i suspect that is relatively innocuous in the whole grand scheme of things.) Does the Dwarf Fortress application take up a lot of memory/ processing power upon loading the save? Cause other than the non-existent FPS, that was THE major issue for me. It made loading and saving really tedious, and with a buggy fort like this, you wanted to save often.

If its crashing due to autosave or manual saving, its probably the bloody trees again. Comb the inside of the fort (which is not paved over, check the trade depot and the northern wall) for new growths. That's the reason why I spent most of my turn paving all over the outside of the fort in the first place, to prevent the obnoxious tree growths. What makes it worse is that there's so much shit all over the floor that you can't really spot newly grown trees. They just spring up out of the ground and fuck things over. What I did was to just mass designate the inside of the fort for tree chopping a few weeks or so before the end of the season before the game autosaves, and i did not have problems saving after that.

As for the levers, there are a bunch of levers in the central control room in the center of the fort that control the misc bridges to seal the fort, some at the southeast end on level 2 above the clock tower that deal with power for the clocktower, the turbines and the hospital, and one more for the magma in the southern outpost.


But if its really too much of a pain to play out, perhaps a reboot is in order?

We could engineer a mass exodus (read:abandon the fort, the world and everything) and cook up an entirely new world. Though we might want to play this out and wait for the new version. *shrugs*

[Taupe]

There are many, many areas that need flooring, and I,ve booted the save to designate a few. There are about 300+ squares inside the turbine hall, and what's more, everything underneath the turbines is now considered outside as well, so the tunnel for water evacuation spawns grass as well. Yay! So gotta floor that as well, not that it'll do any good when we reopen the turbines, which should be in a long long time since I'm moving the river soonish.

I'll also check for various areas that we may have missed, hidden in random nooks and crannies.

As for rebooting the fortress, I'm not even sure waiting for the next version would be much better, since we'll just get version 49.01, and then 30 new builds will appear and somebody will update and we'll have a buggy save again. If we were to change, I'd either grab 40.24 which is more likely to stay as is and not cause issues, or hell, run 2012 to avoid fucking tree fucks. Actually, I'll create a poll to know how overseers (and the very patient/insane readers feel about this idea.  I mean yeah, reboots suck, but we're talking about what, six turns over the course of a year? We'd get about half of that done by next month if we got motivated players and a non-horrible savefile. Especially considering I'd run a new registration process, which will hopefully cleanse the turn list of people who registered 6+ months ago and died. I'd just send a mass message to everyone registered for a turn. Those who manifest interest would keep their place in the turn order, others will be left out until they re-apply. So anyone waiting for a turn would not be losing their spot.

I'll let the poll run, and see where it is heading. Whether I'll be continuing this thing or switching to a rebooted fort on thursday shall be decided by a vote.

[Zuglarkun]

Yeah, I don't think the next version is coming anytime soon either. I'm voting for a reboot with version 40.24 cause quite frankly, I'll rather have the fancy new features and bug fixes.

Frankly, the only 2 things that aren't quite as up to par with 2012, is the bug with the trees and the sieges. Trees aren't that bad of an issue since there are ways to work around that, and sieges not pathing to the fort aren't that bad as long as the world gen is done right. I can probably offer up my skills with world gen by generating a pretty diverse small/ smaller map (to preserve FPS) - with high savagery, tons of megabeasts (40+) and all the civilizations (I have a few working profiles for these), if more !!FUN!! is needed.

[Deus Asmoth]

Well I'll miss being the root of all evil, but there's not a whole lot of point in ruling a world of ashes and lag. Plus I'll get to assassinate my way up to the barony all over again!

[Taupe]

Indeed, the tree problem can be worked with as long as we make it primordial that stuff be floored. ''Add a floor before roofing anything'' is a very simple and efficient rule.

Im not an expert with world gen, having acually created exactly none myself (the world I use is 34.xx and was created by a friend who taught me the game while we
were both drunk), so I'll give you carte blanche for world creation. Unless somebody suggests sonething very specific, just trust your guts. Looking at the poll,  a reboot is definitely needed. 

Should we use a desert again? This one was pretty tane but im sure we can get some cool snakes and scorpions in there to spice things up...

[Zuglarkun]

Deserts huh? I'll give the world generator a whirl and see if anything interesting comes up. Any requests?

[Dumbestdorf]

What good is a save if it's unplayable? Voting for reboot.

[Urist McKiwi]

Well, it's sad but rebooting does seem to be in order. I personally played before things got this bad, and never used DFhack at all (I don't have it installed....it gets me too....organised...for my liking)....but this save is from about as early a build of DF2012 as is possible to bring up to the current version. Evidently, it hasn't been brought up very well. Add to that the tree issues + large embark + water + lots of units + wacky pathfinding shenangigans......and it's likely that whatever we do, it's gonna collapse again. We didn't really have many ties to Moltenchannels with this fort anyway...so if we start again with a nice volcano or something we can get right down to business.

One thing that would be nice though is if we can tie the reboot into the meta. Not necessary, but I did kinda like the (rather patchy) metaplot we had going between Ardentdikes and Moltenchannels. I'd excuse peeps if they didn't want to read through over 100 pages of thread to catch up on it for a simple "so yeah, this fort....isn't...anymore")

....Also I nominate the next thread title as "Murderflood: Resurrection II: The Reboot.

Maybe also rename the fort a little to make light of the fact that this is the...ooh...third or fourth...rework of this fort?

[Taupe]

What about... Cactusson?

 But seriously: Murderflood resurection II : The reboot (Ardendikes IIIv3) is so dumb it must come to be.

[Triaxx2]

Maybe we can get a desert with a stream in it? A flat surface volcano would be ideal, but a water moat will deal with most things. A two-tiered design with a drain into an aquifer or off the map edge, so things get flushed out.

[Zuglarkun]

OK, I've got a working template going. Still running into many rejections,  but I can eventually get at what I'm aiming for. It'll need some fine-tuning for certain. I think we might have to forgo volcanoes, as its difficult with my current skill at world gen to slot a sufficient amount of those in without running into more rejections, I'll try to get at least one embark with it though.

Anyway onward to the important stuff.

- Small region (65x65)
- 150 year history
- No oceans
- Hopefully no aquifers
- Surface water source (preferably a lake)
- 4x4 embark.
- Desert
- Intersection of 3 biomes or more
- 30-40 megabeasts
- 50-60 titans
- Access to all civilizations (except kobolds, they tend to keel over pretty early on)
- 25 civilizations (reason being that a good number of them will die off completely in the first few years anyway due to the ridiculous number of megabeasts and titans, which are 10x their normal number. Survival of the fittest! This way, we'll get some interesting history and are bound to run into multitudes of goblins as long as they are in range.)


Need some quick opinions:
- Would you guys want more layers above ground? (currently set at 15 z-levels)
- Space between surface level and first caverns (currently set at 20 z-levels)
- More necromancer towers or less necromancer towers?

Does that look good enough? I'll keep you guys updated once I've managed to isolate a few choice locations, though I think it might take me till the weekend.

Also, in case you were wondering what we missed out on when we decided to abandon Murderflood... Warning! Spoilers ahead!

Spoiler: Secrets of the Decisive Net (click to show/hide)

Oh, Captain Archmage. Sadly you did not choose an embark that was close to a tower. Much lulz could have been had. I wonder how many folks knew of this secret?

[Gwolfski]

more necromancer towers and more z-levels. we must have a magma moat for flying invader zombies!

[Ghills]

Also voting for rebooting.  Would rather a save that works.

[Taupe]

More above-ground levels. They are empty and dont really slow things down, and its always nice when we are thinking of aboveground building.

More necromancer towers if possible. With siege pathing issues, we may miss on a lot of them anyway. Its not like we cant deal with sieges witg a magma moat or a sealed entrance anyway...

Biome intersection sounds fine and interesting.

Im ok with a water source. Realistically nobody has any reason not to settle near one in a fucking desert. Starting with a water-oriented design where we build along the river instead of randomly, with ports and docks and warehouse along the river could be awesome. Like, rows of multi-level clay buildings filled with tiny back alleys and inner city walls and magma aqueducs could be fucking metal.

Dont really need extra space before the caverns, as we'll probably be using the ground for stone instead of rooms. We can also get a ton of mileage out of clay and sand crafting, because desert y'all.

As you can guess im really in favor of a unified desertic vibe for design and building. Something aboveground and unique, biome-specific, yet intrinsically dwarven. Im thinking City of Brass, with clay and stone claustrophobic buildings, magma pipes and pool everywhere, decorated metal roofs to reflect the sunlight, gem windows monuments...