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[Orange Wizard]

Alternative Solution: If you look female, go to the woman's bathroom. If you look male, go to the men's bathroom.

[ArKFallen]

Alternative Solution: If you look female, go to the woman's bathroom. If you look male, go to the men's bathroom.

Favorite solution really. Just begs the question of how butch until you look male, how androgynous until you look female? Still leads to people being uncomfortable thinking there is the wrong gender/sex/wtfhell is in the room but it is probably best we learn to get over that as people anyway.

[Orange Wizard]

Alternative Solution: If you look female, go to the woman's bathroom. If you look male, go to the men's bathroom.

Favorite solution really. Just begs the question of how butch until you look male, how androgynous until you look female? Still leads to people being uncomfortable thinking there is the wrong gender/sex/wtfhell is in the room but it is probably best we learn to get over that as people anyway.

If you don't really look particularly male or female, then just pick one and try not to make eye contact.

[alexandertnt]

I don't think that's how the average person sees it. Granted, this isn't a conversation I've had with a lot of people, but I think if you were to pick a bunch of people at random and ask "Joe was born a man, then took hormones until he grew boobs, had surgery to remove his penis, changed his name to Joann and now acts like a woman, dresses like a woman and lives like a woman. Is it ok for Joann to call herself a girl and use the girl's bathroom?"

I have to disagree in general - But I'm not differentiating between pre-op and post-op trans people. All the arguments you hear about transgendered people using the "wrong" bathroom are exactly the same arguments you would hear for people using the bathroom of the "wrong" sex.

That's why you see things like this:

Spoiler: not the best time to go to Syrupland (click to show/hide)

The crux of the "argument" being that MtF trans people are going to spy/be-perverts, pretty much the same response you would get out of many people when presented with the idea of a man going into the women bathroom. Because MtF trans are actually just men, apparently. Note: In my experience, these people don't care about pre-op-post-op status, but see sex/gender as something that can not be changed from birth.

To some people, transgendered people do not exist, and some people will continue to see them as their original gender.

Alternative Solution: If you look female, go to the woman's bathroom. If you look male, go to the men's bathroom.

What about butch women, or feminine men? Your just separating bathrooms based on appearance and at this point, why even bother with separate facilities?

Just pick the one you are most comfortable with.

[Truean]

This isn't about you. It's about common courtesy and not making other people uncomfortable.

No. .... It is.

What is mind numbingly amazing here... is that if being "uncomfortable" is all it takes, then every bigoted jerk in history was right.... You do get that don't you? Racists aren't comfortable around black people for example, hence US segregation. Homophobes aren't "comfortable" around gays. The standard is completely unworkable.

[ShadowHammer]

Your argument, Truean, is that you should be able to use whichever bathroom you feel safe in, yes?

Why, then, should cis females not be able to have a bathroom in which they feel safe? The point of that Family Action propaganda (which was pretty stupidly presented) is that allowing male sexual predators an excuse to enter female washrooms will increase sexual harassment and assault rates. You fear for your safety when you enter the male washrooms, and they are trying to prevent cis females from fearing the same when they enter any washrooms.

Unisex washrooms may not solve this issue, but then again, they might; if there are other guys in the washroom, a sexual predator will probably get punched in the face several times if they try to harass or assault a female.

What LordBucket means (please correct me if I'm wrong, LB), at least partially, by "this isn't about you", is that the majority of people don't feel strongly about honest people such as you, Truean, using the women's facilities; they feel strongly about men who may take advantage of the protections afforded you to harm other honest folks.

[alexandertnt]

Male sexual predators don't need an excuse to enter female bathrooms. They just will. A picture of a female stick figure isn't going to stop them.

[Orange Wizard]

you're totally missing the point

What is the point? Because right now all you really appear to be doing is saying "but I'm discriminated against, therefore you're wrong".

[Urist Arrhenius]

Yeah, the real problem here is that "men will harass women in the bathroom" just isn't founded on anything other than conservative fear mongering. The men who don't harass women will continue on their lives, the men who do harass women, as has been pointed out, don't really respect signs, and they have much better places to conduct harassment. The fact of the matter is that any well-traveled bathroom will be very safe from a harassment standpoint.

On the other hand, trans people are harassed within male/female bathrooms because they stand out. They're essentially forced to expose themselves to harassment.

[Cheeetar]

What is the point? Because right now all you really appear to be doing is saying "but I'm discriminated against, therefore you're wrong".

His blindingly obvious point is that one person claiming to be uncomfortable does not invalidate the rights of other people.

[Orange Wizard]

What is the point? Because right now all you really appear to be doing is saying "but I'm discriminated against, therefore you're wrong".

His blindingly obvious point is that one person claiming to be uncomfortable does not invalidate the rights of other people.

The rights to what, not being uncomfortable? I'm at a loss here.

[Cheeetar]

Use the public facilities set out for them? You know... the topic of the thread?

[Orange Wizard]

Which they apparently don't want to use because it makes them uncomfortable.

[Urist Arrhenius]

No, the problem is that there really are no such facilities. They aren't accepted in either bathroom really.

[Orange Wizard]

I don't even.

I must be having an aneurysm or something because I seriously have no idea how to rationalise this.