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Author Topic: Overwatch  (Read 167167 times)

Flying Dice

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #540 on: June 11, 2016, 10:52:21 am »

Okay, yeah, I feel much better about getting shut out by them.

Out of the modern multiplayer FPS games descended from Half Life (i.e. all of them), I would say that counterstrike is the best of the pseudorealism branch, but I still really dislike playing it. It seems to me like the emphasis is on circumstantial advantage from positioning over emergent advantage from movement, if that makes sense. It feels similar to RNG, even if it isn't. The same underlying structure can be found in pretty much every FPS on the market, with its worst manifestation being the CoD style of just having a bunch of idiots wander around in a circle shooting each other in the back.
It doesn't rely on the high-speed twitch movement familiar to the earliest generation of FPS players. That said, that's not what it's about. The primary gameplay mechanics in CS are recoil control and, yes, movement. But it's a different sort of movement. Instead of rapid vector changes, it values sensory awareness (both yourself and others), though both styles also highly value map knowledge. Good CS play relies heavily on excellent awareness of your surroundings: being aware of every sound, and knowing what a particular sound means; knowing where you can move and what sort of cues that movement will give to an alert enemy; predicting enemy pathing; and knowing when to sacrifice speed for surprise or vice-versa.

The number one thing I see newer CS players doing wrong is not properly managing their sound, either just by ignoring walk, crouch, and crouch-walk, or by playing music or some shit. It's the one game where I think that audio comms is almost always detrimental unless you're playing with a group that stays shut up whenever a callout isn't absolutely necessary.

It still has twitchy aim-valuing gameplay, but that's at the tip of a long spear of slow-paced movement and auditory play and counterplay.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #541 on: June 11, 2016, 12:05:38 pm »

I think that's part of what makes CS so hard, that shit is invisible if you aren't already aware of it.  At least in MOBAs the game will tell you if you aren't farming properly or something.  That being said, everyone who's like "CS isn't about twitch aiming!" already has great aim. The bar for a mediocre CS player in terms of aim is much higher than the bar for even a good TF2 player (you could substitute most FPSs ever there).

Well, somebay12ers just tried to qualify in a tournament and got slaughtered :(
Update on this. The team we were first matched with absolutely #rekt us. Like, we didn't put up a fight. That said, they stomped two pro teams on the way to round five, where they were taken down by the eventual loser in the final round. Excuse the shitty music, but this is the team leader we were up against.
I said beforehand that the first round would all be down to the luck of who we got matched with.  Looks like we lost that particular game of slots...
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Flying Dice

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #542 on: June 11, 2016, 12:58:47 pm »

Incidentally, that's one of the reasons why I so heavily dislike GO. If you knew your shit in earlier CS games you could reliably spray people with the AK on full auto at medium range. In GO pretty much everything not a sniper rifle has RNG CoF bullshit.

And honestly, the aiming wasn't hard. Most engagements occurred at ranges where all that really mattered were your reflexes and recoil control. Longer range fights (barring AWPstar standoffs) were much the same: single-click or two-round bursting fights usually took long enough that even slower players could stand a chance as long as they aimed properly. That, coupled with the relatively slow movement, is why I generally don't think of it as a twitch FPS, even if you need good reflexes in firefights. Especially because proper positioning often reduced or eliminated the need for such: you don't have to be faster to aim and fire than the other guy if you're ambushing him from behind or if you've flashbanged him.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #543 on: June 11, 2016, 10:47:09 pm »

That's not the impression CS:S gave me at all.  Even if I purchased the armor and helmet, I was still dead in less than a second.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #544 on: June 11, 2016, 10:55:22 pm »

All of that is still true for CSGO.  Spray patterns are non-random with randomness added based on what you do.  The first two shots with an AK-47 are perfectly accurate at most ranges and even with just a couple days of regular play I could consistently pop people at medium range.  Spraying at midrange is fine if you know how to do it, long range is still mostly bursting, but decent players avoid aimbattles in favor of positioning because past very low level just about everyone can get you as fast as you can get them.
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Mattk50

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #545 on: June 12, 2016, 08:48:09 am »

All of that is still true for CSGO.  Spray patterns are non-random with randomness added based on what you do.  The first two shots with an AK-47 are perfectly accurate at most ranges and even with just a couple days of regular play I could consistently pop people at medium range.  Spraying at midrange is fine if you know how to do it, long range is still mostly bursting, but decent players avoid aimbattles in favor of positioning because past very low level just about everyone can get you as fast as you can get them.

First shots in CSGO being perfectly accurate is a common misconception. Most weapons have a small but significant cone of fire. On dust 2 ramp to A top the AK's cof will be about a foot in width, enough to miss a headshot if you arent aiming dead center on the head.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #546 on: June 12, 2016, 11:45:13 am »

Yeah, that was one of the biggest things that annoyed people.

That's not to say that I particularly liked the way first-shot accuracy worked in 1.6, or the oversized hitboxes in Source, but at least their gunplay was consistent.
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Levi

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #547 on: June 13, 2016, 12:44:10 pm »

I think I've finally decided on the characters I'm gonna focus on.  Here is my list:

Pharah
Junkrat
Lucio
Reinhardt
Symmetra
Genji (maybe).

I've got Genji as a maybe because I actually haven't put a lot of time in him yet, but the few times I've played him I can ALMOST see myself getting decent with him.  I need to actually put some time into him to be sure.

Also apparently there is likely to be a Widowmaker and McCree nerf patch this week.  I don't care too much about McCree, but I'll be happy about anything they do to Widow.  :)
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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #548 on: June 13, 2016, 01:58:36 pm »

Mercy seems like a good choice for practicing for anyone. From my experience w/ TF2, it's always nice to have someone who can play a decent medic on a team.

Admittedly w/ Overwatch Lucio can also fill the healer role, but from what I've seen of gameplay it seems Mercy's resurrect ult is a huge boon for team fights.
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Levi

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #549 on: June 13, 2016, 03:16:27 pm »

Mercy seems like a good choice for practicing for anyone. From my experience w/ TF2, it's always nice to have someone who can play a decent medic on a team.

Admittedly w/ Overwatch Lucio can also fill the healer role, but from what I've seen of gameplay it seems Mercy's resurrect ult is a huge boon for team fights.

Yeah, Mercy's ult is pretty much the best thing in the game.  I tend to get a bit frustrated playing her though because of how dependent she is on her team.  With Lucio I can just kinda try to handle things on my own AND keep my team healed at the same time. 

Mercy also feels like a bullet magnet the way everyone focus-fires on her sometimes.  :D
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #550 on: June 13, 2016, 03:41:28 pm »

Be unusual and main Ball Guy instead.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #551 on: June 13, 2016, 03:44:05 pm »

Zenbro is about as much of a healer as 76, and has way more damage. They should swap their attacker/support roles. :P
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #552 on: June 13, 2016, 03:51:32 pm »

Symetra should be a defense choice like torb then
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Egan_BW

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #553 on: June 13, 2016, 04:00:48 pm »

Given that their abilities are very different tweaks on the same basis, I could get behind that. Really feel that the game needs more than two main healers.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #554 on: June 13, 2016, 04:04:03 pm »

You're not entirely wrong.  Ball Guy and Sym seem to work much better if they are the second support on the team.
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