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[Greenbane]

I gotta say, the only thing I really want them to add, aside from more maps, is an audio cue when you hit someone. That ding from TF2 is just so damn satisfying to hear.

There's audio cues for kills and each headshot, as well visual indicators for hits (crosshair "spiking") with headshot recognition (red spike). Adding another audio cue for normal hits would be perhaps too much.

As for Widow, yeah. The fact her sniper rifle can automagically become an assault rifle is ludicrous. If anything, her automatic fire mode should have a slower rate of fire, much like Bastion's Recon gun. She must have some disadvantage.

As far as my own experience goes, my buddies haven't been around in the past few days, so I've had to play with a majority of randoms. Many don't give a damn about the objective, it's common to see teams devoid of tanks or supports (my own teams, of course), tanks not acting like tanks and chasing kills like dumbasses, etc.

But despite my raging against players, Blizzard should do something about it. There should be extra rewards for playing as tanks or supports, like XP bonuses and such. The truth is those classes aren't as fun to play as the other ones. I'm a fairly decent Reinhardt, but I often resent playing as him because it's obligatory when nobody else on the team will think about the team, and I have more fun playing other characters.

[Drakale]

To be fair, if I'm Rein and the team is not very good, I'm probably going to go hail mary on those charges. Better risk it for a reversal than sit there and wonder why nobody use my shield cover to fire at the enemy. Same with lucio, you better believe I'm gonna go in the back lines and kill that sniper or that teleporter if nobody else can do it. Not optimal, but you do what you feel will have an impact.

[Neonivek]

The Overwatch definition of superhero isn't the same thing as DC or Marvel.

Superhero: a Hero with Super Powers.

You are being so obtuse right now.

Hey I am not the one who claimed that the "DC/Marvel definition of Super Hero is Vigilante"

Of which my response was to roll my eyes and state that the "everyone's" definition of Superhero is "A hero with superpowers"

[Greenbane]

To be fair, if I'm Rein and the team is not very good, I'm probably going to go hail mary on those charges. Better risk it for a reversal than sit there and wonder why nobody use my shield cover to fire at the enemy. Same with lucio, you better believe I'm gonna go in the back lines and kill that sniper or that teleporter if nobody else can do it. Not optimal, but you do what you feel will have an impact.

Problem is when your allies are running around and dying like headless chickens, if you're Reinhardt and you leave the payload to go kill some fool a fair distance away (like a sniper), nobody has your back to keep the thing moving and pressure the enemy on that front.

Likewise, when on the attack, I've often found that I'm the only one contesting the bloody advancing payload, and whenever I die the enemy objective advances a third of the map.

As a tank, sitting on the objective is usually the better choice when playing with a sub-normal team. If you're destracted from your role and nobody has your back, you're only further helping the enemy. If your allies are rock-bottom shitty, though, nothing you do will have any significant impact. You can't carry four or five anchors to victory.

[Cthulhu]

If I really feel like nobody's taking advantage of my Reining, I'll switch to Winston or Roadhog.  If my force multiplier support pick is multiplying by zero, I'll switch to S76 and pseudo-support.

[chaoticag]

Yeah, Reinhart is a team player, Roadhog is a selfish bastard. Pretty much if my team needs either a tank or a support and no one is willing to be the support, I just pick roadhog. He works better with backup, but he lasts a decent bit on his own and is great for punishing out of line characters as well as breaking formations up. I hit level 20 so I also should look into grounding myself in other characters probably. Zarya's style seems to be more range in exchange for being the smaller reinhart, so that might be fun. Plus the ult seems a bit more powerful in her case.

[Flying Dice]

But despite my raging against players, Blizzard should do something about it. There should be extra rewards for playing as tanks or supports, like XP bonuses and such. The truth is those classes aren't as fun to play as the other ones. I'm a fairly decent Reinhardt, but I often resent playing as him because it's obligatory when nobody else on the team will think about the team, and I have more fun playing other characters.

D. Va and Roadhog aren't fun to play? That's news to me! 

But yeah, I also fell in love with D. Va once I figured out how to play her properly. And Junkrat's my go-to offensive carry now; he feels so satisfying to play and his kit's excellent, even if I barely ever use his ult.

That's the thing. If you need to deadlift a team that's bad but still manageable, you absolutely have to play someone that has an active playstyle and can get kills. Rein doesn't work too well for the same reason as Bj or Widow, they all require a moderately well-coordinated team to take advantage of their strengths, and can't do too much alone. People say the same thing about Mei, but I've been experiencing the opposite, since she's so excellent (at least on certain maps) for dividing and disrupting the enemy enough that even a sack of five potatoes to clean them up.

[Greenbane]

If I really feel like nobody's taking advantage of my Reining, I'll switch to Winston or Roadhog.

In my case, the problem is less that nobody takes advantage of Reinhardt's shield, and more that I'm left pushing the payload alone while everyone is busy failing at chasing random kills.

Sometimes my team is so inept there have been occasions in which I ended up with gold or silver for eliminations while doing my job, staying near the objective without going out of my way to kill anyone. My allies were busy dying without even managing to disrupt the enemy.

But despite my raging against players, Blizzard should do something about it. There should be extra rewards for playing as tanks or supports, like XP bonuses and such. The truth is those classes aren't as fun to play as the other ones. I'm a fairly decent Reinhardt, but I often resent playing as him because it's obligatory when nobody else on the team will think about the team, and I have more fun playing other characters.

D. Va and Roadhog aren't fun to play? That's news to me! 

But yeah, I also fell in love with D. Va once I figured out how to play her properly. And Junkrat's my go-to offensive carry now; he feels so satisfying to play and his kit's excellent, even if I barely ever use his ult.

That's the thing. If you need to deadlift a team that's bad but still manageable, you absolutely have to play someone that has an active playstyle and can get kills. Rein doesn't work too well for the same reason as Bj or Widow, they all require a moderately well-coordinated team to take advantage of their strengths, and can't do too much alone. People say the same thing about Mei, but I've been experiencing the opposite, since she's so excellent (at least on certain maps) for dividing and disrupting the enemy enough that even a sack of five potatoes to clean them up.

Well, D.Va is more fun than Reinhardt, but she's less successful at holding ground and therefore has a tougher time say, moving a payload, without meaningful support. She's a flanking tank who has to exploit her mobility to survive. She can't just take it the way Reinhardt or Roadhog do.

As for Roadhog, well, I don't like his looks, and that's pretty much the reason I don't play as him. I recognize his value, but he just doesn't look cool to me. And I feel forced enough playing a tank I only sort-of like.

As for the fun of playing tanks/support in general, they're less fun to most people, which is evidenced by the common lack of tanks and supports in games. Most people want to play the cool ninja, the cool cowboy, the cool soldier.

[Flying Dice]

Oh, yeah, I can't think of any payload maps where I'd play D. Va on offense, she's all about that backline disruption and drawing multiple people away from the cart, not facetanking. Actually, she's got a lot in common with Tracer, oddly enough.

And again, that's not been my experience. I mean, there are occasionally the lone morons that decide their shitty Widow/Pharah/Tracer/Genji play is more important than a reliable DPS, but I honestly can't think of more than one or two times where everyone else just collectively refused to play a support or tank.

On an unrelated note, I'm definitely judging you for not playing Roadhog because of something that superficial. He and Junkrat are incredibly fugly but they're both excellent in a wide range of circumstances and both counter a lot of the annoying spam picks, Bastion in particular. 


e: First legendary skin drop aaaand... Woodbot Bastion. Q.Q

[Cthulhu]

A lot of heroes have multiple roles, I'd consider McCree more of an offense/defense than a pure offense like Tracer for example.  Winston and D.Va are too far from the tank role to really function as a pure tank, more tanky offense.

Like how you can't just toss a Symmetra in and say you have a support, since she can't heal.

[EnigmaticHat]

McCree is a win button right now... the devs have said they intended him to be a counter to agile heroes and the fact that fan the hammer just *happens* to also make him a tank killer was an accident.  A lot of pro teams are apparently running double McCree.  They're looking into ways to nerf him.

I would categorize the "true" tanks as Reinhardt, Winston, and Zarya.  Purely because non-ult-charging, shoot-people-who-can't-shoot-back barriers are an essential part of any team.  Roadhog isn't a good tank because, while he's good at keeping himself alive, in the process he feeds the enemy massive amounts of ult (there are characters that can go from 0 to 100% ult charge just by killing Roadhog).  D'va simply isn't a tank in the traditional sense; her active defense is extraordinarily powerful but it has a 23% uptime, almost as bad as Genji.  Winston and Zarya both have a 40% uptime (Mei beats them at 45%, but her Ice Wall can't be shot through so she's only a semi-tank really), while Reinhardt takes the cake with 100%.

Reinhardt is easily the "purest" tank in that he *demands* that the enemy waste time shooting him instead of his teammates, yet with his 2000 HP barrier and armor he doesn't give them much ult in the process.  Reinhardt has a crippling weakness for verticality however, Pharah and Hanzo might as well be in an alternate dimension for all he can do to them.  Side note, what a lot of people don't realize about Reinhardt is if you put his barrier behind a pillar or corner, you basically double its health because the weakspot is hidden.  Also rule of thumb, always assume pins will fail and don't charge unless you're ok with where you're going to end up.  Its a hard rule to follow but it will make your Reinhardt play far better.

Winston requires his team to play in a specific way to make good use of him but he can definitely be a team's only tank if played correctly.  He needs a lot of healing, and he needs his teammates to be constantly threatening the enemy team.  But if all that is true, a well played Winston can be simultaneously ganking and tanking at the same time.  Its an... odd sight.  He's very mobile, very threatening to squishies, and his barrier doesn't require him to be physically present.  The majority of the community plays Winston as an offensive tank on payload maps and that's literally the worst maptype for him; he's at his best defending because the kind of characters he counters are the kind of characters most offense teams want.

Zarya shouldn't require much explanation, she saves people and can quickly develop into a DPS/tank hybrid.

[Cthulhu]

Yeah, I called him offense/defense because when played as intended he sits off to the side and shuts down flanking actions.

[Flying Dice]

Zarya's an interesting one insofar as that she's probably the most effective tank for everything except backline disruption and sitting on payloads, but she's almost useless without competent teams. I try to pull her out a lot for KotH matches, both because dropping the barrier on something like a Reaper or Genji who's about to jump in and ult is a really nasty combo, and because her ult, if held for the right moment, can end a lot of those protracted stalemates in a heartbeat. There's not many things as satisfying as landing a six-man ult during a 99%/99% stalemate and watching the entire group get ripped apart.

[Neonivek]

Zarya's an interesting one insofar as that she's probably the most effective tank for everything except backline disruption and sitting on payloads, but she's almost useless without competent teams. I try to pull her out a lot for KotH matches, both because dropping the barrier on something like a Reaper or Genji who's about to jump in and ult is a really nasty combo, and because her ult, if held for the right moment, can end a lot of those protracted stalemates in a heartbeat. There's not many things as satisfying as landing a six-man ult during a 99%/99% stalemate and watching the entire group get ripped apart.

Yeah but she probably would rate near the top on my "Most annoying character to play as" list. It is probably why I almost never saw anyone play her when this game was free.

Then again I never saw a lot of characters being played... Then again the sheep didn't see any pro videos yet to influence their decisions. (Yeah I am still bitter)

[EnigmaticHat]

No could figure Zarya out because she has no obvious analog from other FPSs and they only had 4 days with the game.  She's not really annoying to play; lure the enemy into popping two bubbles, commit to a fight, god mode activate.  She can be frustrating if you can't get charge or your allies won't commit to fights alongside you, but... that's just kinda how Overwatch works with most characters.  No more frustrating than missing shots as Widowmaker or getting ganked/ulted as a medic.