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[hops]

You're going to have to bust your ass most of the time to win, in quickplay or competitive. So I really don't understand the point of competitive, since it's not like my enemies in quickplay are too easy or anything.

[Leafsnail]

Comp isn't necessarily harder, it's just that most people are trying to win while in quickplay a lot of people are either messing around or practising a hero they know they're bad at.

[Cthulhu]

Wew lad, was just on a team as Mercy with Orisa and Bastion in Egypt.  We set up on the platform just past the first big wall and denied them the entire game.  Me and Orisa never died, bastion died once, and then we had the classic hanzo/widowmaker who just fucked around the whole game.  Oh, and S76 for the offheals.  He didn't die either.

They started to figure out what to do but only after it was way too late.  Winston, Genji, D.Va came out, D.Va ulted in the last like five seconds of the game.  I survived and revived but I think they would've been able to take the point off of that ult if she'd done it early enough.  I don't think that combo would've survived being broken up even if I ressed them, need to organize.

How would you guys say to deal with that?  They were pretty disorganized but if you had some people to rely on how would you do it?  I think the Genji/Winston/D.Va were a good choice though bastion often seems idiot-proof, even if you do get on him he kills you so fast it doesn't matter (i've gotten behind bastion as tracer and had him turn around and kill me before I could kill him even hitting the lamp)

[Mephansteras]

Genji is a pretty hard counter for Bastion. Get in close and reflect his bullets back. Normally he'll die before he can even stop shooting. Although a good bastion with a Mercy to heal can stop that.

For that particular set-up, I'd probably go two flankers (Genji and probably Tracer or Sombra). Have a power hitter like Pharah with a tank assault from the front, have Genji try to take out Bastion, and have the other flanker dash past and hit the point to force the team to worry about that. That leaves a healer to help with the frontal assault team and another player to work on some other aspect. Maybe sniper to counter yours. Winston/D.Va would also be good as a rusher to help the Bastion/Orisa fight. Give them more targets to worry about. And have one of them probably focus on Mercy to take her out of the equation.

That's what I've done in the past against that sort of set-up. Of course, it requires a bit of team coordination to pull off. At worst, you could try it with the Genji/other flanker combo and hope the rest of your team keeps pressure on the front.

[EnigmaticHat]

Wew lad, was just on a team as Mercy with Orisa and Bastion in Egypt.  We set up on the platform just past the first big wall and denied them the entire game.  Me and Orisa never died, bastion died once, and then we had the classic hanzo/widowmaker who just fucked around the whole game.  Oh, and S76 for the offheals.  He didn't die either.

They started to figure out what to do but only after it was way too late.  Winston, Genji, D.Va came out, D.Va ulted in the last like five seconds of the game.  I survived and revived but I think they would've been able to take the point off of that ult if she'd done it early enough.  I don't think that combo would've survived being broken up even if I ressed them, need to organize.

How would you guys say to deal with that?  They were pretty disorganized but if you had some people to rely on how would you do it?  I think the Genji/Winston/D.Va were a good choice though bastion often seems idiot-proof, even if you do get on him he kills you so fast it doesn't matter (i've gotten behind bastion as tracer and had him turn around and kill me before I could kill him even hitting the lamp)

Spam at long range with Pharah until the shields go down, then do pretty much anything with anyone.  Or, have D.va jump him with defense matrix and a couple dive heroes follow her in.  4 seconds of being uable to shoot is not healthy for our poor immobile PTSD robot.

[Cthulhu]

Got two comp games under my belt, horrible experience so far.  I've never seen a game that makes you feel so helpless when you're losing.  Even league doesn't feel like this. 

If you pick widowmaker the game should record your match and if you don't kill the mercy at least once it automatically notifies the police.

[EvilTwin]

Got two comp games under my belt, horrible experience so far.  I've never seen a game that makes you feel so helpless when you're losing.  Even league doesn't feel like this. 

If you pick widowmaker the game should record your match and if you don't kill the mercy at least once it automatically notifies the police.

I wanna see widow and hanzo mains put in games with only other widow and hanzo mains so they can waste only their own time trying to argue that the guy who plays torbjörn is throwing when they can't even headshot with hanzo's huge arrow hitboxes.

[King Kitteh]

So I really don't understand the point of competitive, since it's not like my enemies in quickplay are too easy or anything.

It's so you can earn some shiny gold weapons. Not joking, have heard people say that's the only reason they started comp.

[Leafsnail]

D-Va is a very good counter to Bastion. With the matrix over him he's just a stationary box that does nothing so he's easy pickings. Tracer is also good but mainly because of her ult. Pulse Bomb charges quickly and is easy to land on an immobile Bastion, killing him. Zarya is the only character who can easily save Bastion from this.

[EnigmaticHat]

Personally I think the rework to Bastion was a straight nerf.  When it first went live he had 35% damage resistance in turret mode which combined with armor made him invincible with Mercy.  Then they cut it down to 20% and having that doesn't make up for the lost damage.

What's weird is that in the beta they already tried giving him extra health in turret mode.  They did something similar with D.va, they've dicked around with her health and damage so much but its essentially back to where it was on release.  Albeit with DM being 3x as good as on release.

[MrRoboto75]

He's still a lot better outside of turret mode and can swap modes faster

[Mephansteras]

He's still a lot better outside of turret mode and can swap modes faster

Yeah, I've had a lot of luck with bouncing in and out of turret mode. The recon mode is a lot more accurate, and by swapping in and out to take cover and repair I've had some phenomenally good runs with him. He's less 'Be turret or be useless' and much more a 'know when to be in which mode' character, which I like.

[EnigmaticHat]

Its true, his character is overall more balanced and fun to play against.  The issue is that realistically I don't see people run Bastion without a healer/tank babysitter anyway.  So his self sufficiency doesn't really matter, and with his weaker ambushes his 1v1 ability is also quite bad.

I dunno, the rework looked good on paper but its not clear what they envision the character is for.  He should theoretically be good as a barrier buster and tank killer but armor mitigates his bullets well and with Winston, Zarya, and Genji in the game a pure barrier buster is too easy to counter.

Spoiler: random balance suggestion (click to show/hide)

You know what would be a good change?  Instead of armor working the same way that it does now, make every gun in the game have an armor pen value of low/medium/high listed on the character help sheet and have each of those values be percentage based regardless of range.  For too long we've had the problem where the characters that are good against squish are also good against tanks.  Widowmaker, McCree and 76 are clearly designed to counter low health characters but for a year they've been our best all-range DPS against tanks.  Now we have the reverse problem where if you don't have burst damage Reaper, who's supposed to be a tank killer, is basically invincible against healers that don't have CC.  2/3rds of the game's tanks already have armor, just give all the characters that are supposed to be tank killers the high armor pen value.

Hell, now that Sombra is in the game and her ult specifically does extra damage to a few characters, I think it would be fair to also have an "anti-energy" value so we can define which characters break barriers well.  You could just have most characters default to a medium anti-armor and anti-energy capability and have it be unlisted, and then have characters like Bastion have listed on that their weapon help "does extra damage against shields, does extra damage against armor", and then characters like Tracer "does reduced damage against armor."  The main problem would still be the lack of transparency but armor is already very opaque, its not like its listed anywhere on Tracer's help page "your gun is a peashooter against Rein unless he has no armor in which case fire away."

[MrRoboto75]

You don't see bastion often because dive.  There's no barriers to bust these days and being stationary so often is a downside.

The only issue I have with armor is that it amplifies HPS.  It heals at the same rate as raw health but absorbs more damage.  Its why Dva's armor value was nerfed.

[EnigmaticHat]

You wouldn't see Bastion in deathball/3-tank either.  Orissa and Roadhog can pull him out of position (and both those abilities require different tanks to defend against!).  Meanwhile Rein is a solid Bastion counter for the typical Rein reasons.  On top of that if dive goes out of fashion Ana and Mei will go back into fashion.  Maybe even the Zarya/Hanzo combo.

Not that you would know that deathball tanks are good against Bastion.  All 3 deathball tanks are either very underpowered (Orissa/Roadhog) or severely glitched to the point where every single aspect of his kit doesn't work as intended (Rein).  There's a reason those 3 characters' playrates are through the floor.