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Author Topic: Overwatch  (Read 169076 times)

Leafsnail

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1410 on: July 11, 2017, 12:44:17 pm »

Typically Symmetra and Torbjorn do actually replace the "off-healer" spot (IE Lucio) in tournaments, and I prefer that in my games. They don't heal but they can help keep your main healer alive, and in the case of Symmetra get them back to the front line faster if they do die. Interestingly Sombra usually replaces the main healer (IE the non-Lucio one) because you want as much of your healing as possible to go towards EMP.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1411 on: July 11, 2017, 01:43:44 pm »

The extra HP from the two builders is pretty significant.
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hops

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1412 on: July 11, 2017, 04:11:53 pm »

The guy that looked like a male Mercy gives me an idea of a hero who can fly like Pharah (or at least jumppack for days) and rain down healing nades

Or maybe a hero with a healing flamethrower, so kind of a mix of Mercy and Lucio.
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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1413 on: July 11, 2017, 10:58:25 pm »

Obviously it should be a healing shotgun. Like Ana, but you have to get up close. And get juicy meatshots on your allies.
Shotgun healer guy should have bigger heals than Ana, but his heals should give his allies a short speed debuff. That would be evil enough. :P
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 11:00:08 pm by Egan_BW »
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hops

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1414 on: July 12, 2017, 01:13:13 am »

How about a healer that drop pickups like Torn's armor packs?
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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1415 on: July 12, 2017, 07:50:03 am »

I like the idea of an alchemist healer that tosses around healing potions that poison the enemy. Mix it with the vampire healer idea, but instead doing poison damage makes his potions regen faster or dealing damage heals you and nearby allies? Throw in a shotgun weapon that's basically a bunch of needles that drain enemies and recharges his potions and I've think we've got something original enough to not be similar to any other characters. Heck, we could have two characters here: the alchemist and the shotgun vampire healer.


My biggest problem with Overwatch right now is that there aren't enough dedicated healers. You have Mercy, who's indispensable thanks to her rez but not super fun to play (Especially if the enemy has a good Winston), and Ana, who has a lot of counters and very little mobility. Zen is a DPS pretending to be a healer and Lucio is... Well, he's Lucio. More variety in the healing front would be amazing, and some tanks and DPS with team healing like Soldier's biotic field would be nice. Taking out a healer won't cripple the team so badly if more non-healer characters could share some minor heals. There may be a need to balance that out, such as having more characters that can counter healing effects (Maybe not to the degree Ana does), but it'd add some much needed variety to the roster and make having a 2/2/2 team be less critical. The game needs more hybrid heroes (If any of the current heroes can even be considered hybrid).

After we get more healers, we need more tank love. Orisa hasn't really found her place outside of the moon level, so the roster of chosen tank heroes feels like it hasn't grown at all. The fact that nerfs tend to hit tanks the hardest doesn't help either. I've yet to see a DPS nerfed to the extent Roadhog, Ana, or Dva was. In fact, DPS tends to see buffs (Soldier, Reaper, Sombra, Junkrat, Symetra, McCree, Bastion). The buffs and nerfs are no doubt necessary (Except Bastion - WTF were they thinking?), but as the lead developer has stated perception plays a huge role in the community's behavior. The perception is that DPS is king.

I just want them to stop with the new DPS for a while. If you played with a team of randomly chosen heroes chances are you'd have about 1 healer (And a 50% chance of it being an off healer), 1 - 2 tanks, and 3 - 4 DPS. They try to cover it up by splitting the DPS into Defense Heroes and Offense Heroes and Symetra, but they're the same. It's no wonder most players still prefer playing DPS: Even though the system is geared towards a balanced 2/2/2 team, by sheer numbers it's presented as geared towards a majority DPS team. Additionally most healers have a relatively low skill ceiling and aren't very engaging to play. It's the weakest aspect of an otherwise stellar game.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1416 on: July 12, 2017, 11:26:48 am »

Fortunately for the game some of us actively enjoy playing Mercy and Ana.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1417 on: July 12, 2017, 11:45:24 am »

Even if you had 20 healers the meta would attach to the one with the highest HPS (Biotic Grenade) and the one with the best side mechanic (Speed Boost).

Just like how DPS meta boils down to who does the most damage the fastest (McCree vs 76).
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1418 on: July 12, 2017, 01:22:19 pm »

Fortunately for the game some of us actively enjoy playing Mercy and Ana.
The meta changes have made Ana a lot less fun for me.  In the current meta even if you deal with all the people diving you perfectly, you'll still take shave damage from each off them and usually die.  You really want that off healer to heal you, and to heal squish while you use the grenade to make your tanks unkillable.  On top of that 2/3 of the meta tanks right now are incredibly painful for an Ana to deal with (granted, they're incredibly painful to deal with in general).

I can't get anyone to duo healer right now (I don't blame them given where healers are right now).  If you run Zen or Lucio without a main healer and the enemy runs a mercy you're going to lose.  If you run Ana or Zen without a second healer you're going to die a lot even if you do well.  Mercy is incredibly mandatory right now.  And thing about Mercy is that I like playing her, I really do, but its just something I have to be in the mood for.  Its like TF2 medic where you spend all your time jumping around and spinning and 90% of what you do is click on allies.  Mercy's movement mechanics are great and she's hella fun but I don't want to be forced into playing her, I want to do it because animetic came out with a new video or whatever and I'm excited about playing her.
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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1419 on: July 15, 2017, 10:03:04 pm »

I hate mercy.  Ana's not as annoying but since she's a healer that requires aim I usually consider her a non-entity, like having one less player on the team.

It shouldn't be this fucking complicated to stand in a red circle. 
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DoomOnion

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1420 on: July 16, 2017, 01:46:49 am »

Can I share this here? >.>

https://gfycat.com/GiftedParallelGerenuk

We almost pushed A on Eichenwalde, but then everyone decided to just die on Sombra's ult.
Thankfully, no one could hide from my sight.
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hops

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1421 on: July 16, 2017, 03:01:39 am »

Isn't Lucio a main healer in the current dive comp? Burst healing isn't so important when you're mobile enough to grab health packs.
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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1422 on: July 16, 2017, 03:17:23 am »

Nope, it's Mercy. The difference in winrate of teams with/without Mercy is through the roof. I think she's getting a nerf this PTR.

In fact, with the McCree flashbang buff and Doomfist coming in, it's likely that dive will die as soon as it goes live.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1423 on: July 16, 2017, 03:30:27 am »

Isn't Lucio a main healer in the current dive comp? Burst healing isn't so important when you're mobile enough to grab health packs.
My personal answer to that is about armor.  Armor allows a tank to ignore certain characters, and almost all dive characters are on that list.  Genji, Tracer, Sombra, Lucio, Ana (sans grenade), Winston, D.va/Reaper at mid range, pretty much most dive heroes do jack shit to a tank that's being healed and currently on armor.  So tanks like Winston can wade through the enemy team ignoring most of them.  Yet one helix rocket hit, one widow headshot, and suddenly that tank is as mortal as everyone else.  With a giant hitbox to boot.

So to keep your tanks alive, they must must must be assisted by a healer at all times.  Its the difference between your tank healing faster than Tracer can damage them, or them dying in 2 clips because they weren't topped off.  A tank at 400/500 health is not nearly the same thing as a Genji on 160/200 health, even tho its the same percent.  That's why I don't consider Lucio a main healer, because he simply can't heal up a Winston or D.va to full.  It takes like a full minute, and with Sombra in the game you can't assume your tank will have a big health kit (not to mention in the dive meta the health kits are *always* gone).
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 03:36:31 am by EnigmaticHat »
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Putnam

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Re: Overwatch - Released
« Reply #1424 on: July 16, 2017, 03:41:40 am »

Nope, it's Mercy. The difference in winrate of teams with/without Mercy is through the roof. I think she's getting a nerf this PTR.

In fact, with the McCree flashbang buff and Doomfist coming in, it's likely that dive will die as soon as it goes live.

No, main healers in the current top-level dive meta are Zenyatta on most maps and Sombra on defense on 2CP maps. Mercy isn't even a factor in top-level play, since she doesn't synergize nearly as well as Zenyatta or *especially* Lucio with the most important hero in the game right now, Winston.

Do not take this to mean that I don't think Mercy's a bit of a problem. On a team that doesn't have constant, perfect communication and a precommitted strategy like you would have in pro play, Mercy/Lucio is obviously superior to Lucio/Zenyatta.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 03:43:46 am by Putnam »
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