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[duckman]

Looks like 0.D is actually happening, so stable players will be stuck with that sidebar when that comes out because the guy in charge of that is supposedly stumped on how to improve it.

Edit: Anyone else notice that a bunch of gun mods got massively nerfed a while back to pre-firearms update levels? As in back to when dispersion was still in single and rarely double digits for really inaccurate guns? Curious name for that update.

[EuchreJack]

I'm pretty sure the next update will be titled "fuck the playerbase".  Especially since we'll all feel obligated to update if its really 0.D

[AzyWng]

Jeez.

I can't believe I used to like this game.

[forsaken1111]

debug-menu developers

Please explain

Debug-menu developers basically only play with all the debug mutations on so they can ignore all gameplay mechanics except for the one they are currently working on. To them, things like malnutrition, temperature, injury and fatigue are merely obstacles to putting their pet project into the game rather than core mechanics.

I feel so attacked.

I recently wrote in a debug menu for my own game for this exact purpose, so I could jump ahead and test specific levels and features without playing through the ~45 minute lead-up each time.

[Flying Dice]

debug-menu developers

Please explain

Other folks already got to it, but basically that. Developers who only playtest by spawning/initiating stuff with the debug menu, who are thus (one would think rather obviously) divorced from the reality on the ground for people who actually play the game. Like this one maroon who tried to limit bionic power to 999 to make his shitty UI rework look "better" because he couldn't conceive of a scenario where a player would have or need more than that.

If you've ever used bionics at all, you know exactly how stupid that sounds.

debug-menu developers

Please explain

Debug-menu developers basically only play with all the debug mutations on so they can ignore all gameplay mechanics except for the one they are currently working on. To them, things like malnutrition, temperature, injury and fatigue are merely obstacles to putting their pet project into the game rather than core mechanics.

I feel so attacked.

I recently wrote in a debug menu for my own game for this exact purpose, so I could jump ahead and test specific levels and features without playing through the ~45 minute lead-up each time.

Man, there's nothing wrong with using a debug menu to test content. The problem is when someone who has only ever used the debug menu to test content tries to make sweeping changes to core mechanics without even having played enough to understand why people think they're bad changes.

For example, I don't say shit about mechanics core to the whole primitive-survival style of play because I've never spent time playing that way and can't speak to how it functions very well, beyond peripherals like stuff used in that style of play that also sees use in how I play.

It's an extra-big issue for CDDA because there are so many discrete ways to play and you can't reasonably expect any given contributor to be familiar with all of them... but there should also be the basic sense to not fuck with things you aren't familiar with.

[BigD145]

I'm pretty sure the next update will be titled "fuck the playerbase".  Especially since we'll all feel obligated to update if its really 0.D

I've never felt obligated to update the "stable" version which is pretty much always less stable than an experimental a couple updates later.

[ollobrains]

despite the backlash, im looking forward to the next update

[George_Chickens]

Prime example of why I absolutely cannot stand Kevin or his ego. He doesn't have the right attitude to run a popsicle stand, much less manage the sort of cat-herding you need to head a voluntary community-driven project. Being a dick to everyone that doesn't yes-man for you doesn't work when you have no real power over people beyond the power to frustrate them in their leisure time.

And I looked over some of that guy's prs. He literally doesn't understand how entire systems function from a player perspective and is making arbitrary, damaging changes because he thinks they'll make the UI pretty, and fuck people who want useful information about their character. Excellent demonstration of why extensive playtesting is necessary and debug-menu developers are useless.

Nah man, you don't understand. It's his game. Sure he didn't make it, did not have an active role in growing the community, and mostly acts to scare off larger contributors actually creating improvements to the game, but it's his game. Because, uuuhhhh...

Edit: Anyone else notice that a bunch of gun mods got massively nerfed a while back to pre-firearms update levels? As in back to when dispersion was still in single and rarely double digits for really inaccurate guns? Curious name for that update.

This is disappointing, but not surprising. Since Whales left, it seems as though there has been many a mishmash of strange gun nerfs, from adding tedium to the search for them to outright making them shite.

[duckman]

There's another sidebar redesign in the works.

[King Zultan]

There's another sidebar redesign in the works.

At least it still has all important stuff, and it looks way better than the panel crap that one guy was trying to do.

[Gentlefish]

Wow someone commented that it's important to have options for bot horizontal and vertical emoticons for mood.

Why though. If one fits better in the UI, use that one. Good grief people, UI design isn't about pleasing everyone, it's about making human-understandable interfaces. If one works better in context, you absolutely use that one.

[Flying Dice]

Prime example of why I absolutely cannot stand Kevin or his ego. He doesn't have the right attitude to run a popsicle stand, much less manage the sort of cat-herding you need to head a voluntary community-driven project. Being a dick to everyone that doesn't yes-man for you doesn't work when you have no real power over people beyond the power to frustrate them in their leisure time.

And I looked over some of that guy's prs. He literally doesn't understand how entire systems function from a player perspective and is making arbitrary, damaging changes because he thinks they'll make the UI pretty, and fuck people who want useful information about their character. Excellent demonstration of why extensive playtesting is necessary and debug-menu developers are useless.

Nah man, you don't understand. It's his game. Sure he didn't make it, did not have an active role in growing the community, and mostly acts to scare off larger contributors actually creating improvements to the game, but it's his game. Because, uuuhhhh...

I think an edit of the "I made this" image macro would be appropriate here.

Just a shame all the sane developers got ran off by the toxic environment or real life commitments.

[ollobrains]

I think some of them could be lured back either through nostalgia or even new blood found to add new commits but yeah the future will be interesting

[Kaitol]

The problem with new blood is Kevin isn't going to promote them to admins or creators or however git handles those things like the old original team. So he'll have unilateral final say on anything they add or change, and the instant they try to add or change anything he disagrees with, even if the wider community likes it, he'll block it and give some arbitrary reason about why its inadmissible, and even if they alter it to account for his stated problems, he'll just refuse to listen and continue to block it. This has happened already.

So you might be thinking, why not start a new fork, have all the people go over there and work on their own version? Well, it's been tried, but Kevin also has control of the website, wiki, and forums and is most definitely not going to go to any lengths to include or promote a rival fork in those. So any fork is going to have to start from nothing, with no real way to connect to what remains of the community, outside maybe talking about it here. Getting all the remaining small contributors to move over, trying to rouse up enough interest to get new contributors in, and building a new community from scratch would take a lot of time, effort, and energy and it just seems like no one in a position to do so has the drive to.

[Flying Dice]

Yep. I'm sitting pretty on some old builds that are more or less tolerable for me, and I don't intend to change unless there's a massive about-face.

Given Kevin's history and general attitude, I don't expect to see it. It's a damn shame, because Cataclysm and CDDA were easily in my top five best indie games, right up there with DF, Aurora, Elona+C, and Starsector.