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[ChairmanPoo]

Once again:  I have no stake for or against this Grenade guy. If anything, I dont like the gameplay changes over the last 12 months.  But...   This is an open source project.  If the guy is so bad and there is a long queue waiting to replace him, where are the cloned repositories?

I can't help but think that either there arent that many able peopleinvested in the project, or that they can't be arsed to do anythinf, or both

[Egan_BW]

Of course. The branch happened, and then died.

[Darkmere]

Hey, you know that thing you've been doing with other people who are all helping you more or less refine the same project?

I want you to leave all of that behind and work on an exact copy of the project for me, except we'll have to tear out parts of it and rebuild them - some from the ground up - and so far the amount of people helping you is a lot less than you have now.

^^^

That right there is the pitch to get people to sign on to a new project fork. You'd better have a shitload of charisma to pull that off, especially when you're trying to overcome negative feelings of people who are wanting to leave a project already.

[Random_Dragon]

To be blunt, the only solution that would solve the problem requires Kevin to step down. The main repo has an established base of developers and contributors, things that a fork would lack. The project would survive without him now that that supporting infrastructure exists, and in fact would be better off if he wasn't there to drive off contributors, drive his fellow devs insane, and watse everyone's time arguing over inane things the game dosn't need.

This, sadly, is unlikely to happen.

[Not good with names]

Well, as for gameplay, have been playing on a experimental from march on and off and my biggest question is who decided to take food and some medicines from the 'a' tab?

I mean, I guess that menu could get pretty crowded, but it leads to stuff like hitting 'E' then wondering whether your character is just going to chug disinfectant instead of using it on himself, then you have 'i'>disinfectant>'a'>use on body part.  Do the people who design the game actually play it?  Is the meta just to carry so much stuff on your person that this was a necessary change?

[Random_Dragon]

Is the meta just to carry so much stuff on your person that this was a necessary change?

My dozens of lighters tell me "yes"

[Baffler]

Well, as for gameplay, have been playing on a experimental from march on and off and my biggest question is who decided to take food and some medicines from the 'a' tab?

I mean, I guess that menu could get pretty crowded, but it leads to stuff like hitting 'E' then wondering whether your character is just going to chug disinfectant instead of using it on himself, then you have 'i'>disinfectant>'a'>use on body part.  Do the people who design the game actually play it?  Is the meta just to carry so much stuff on your person that this was a necessary change?

I was frustrated by this too.

I personally try to keep myself as lightly equipped as I can get away with because I tend to run ranged-focused characters operating out of a fixed base. If I mainly leave my base on planned excursions I can just stack whatever tools I might need in the trunk of my vehicle (or rucksack) and staying light and able to outrun or avoid enemies is more important for my immediate survival than anything else since getting into a protracted melee is just asking for death until the late game. The more typical strategy seems to be to be vehicle based though, from what I've seen, and to carry stuff so as not to get caught out if you should need it. If I was carrying a bunch of different stuff all the time I'd probably want the change in filtering too. And even as it is I kinda see the appeal of having 'E' mean 'consumables' and 'a' mean 'tools.'

[azmodean]

Is the meta just to carry so much stuff on your person that this was a necessary change?

It is for some people, and it also seemed like a no-brainer that if you want to eat something it's more straightforward to hit E and then chose something from a restricted list than to hit a and then pick something from a potentally gigantic list of all the items in your inventory.
IIRC the underlying issue is that we're starting to consider items that can be activated in multiple ways, in which case a generic activate menu would have to re-prompt for what to do with it after it's selected, but a topic-specific menu (Eat Read, Disassemble, Reload, etc) can just go Action -> item.

I can certainly see adding that though as a keybinding that brings up a list of every item you can do anything with if you prefer that approach.

p.s. Step down lol, that's some next level entitlement.

[Sheb]

To be blunt, the only solution that would solve the problem requires Kevin to step down. The main repo has an established base of developers and contributors, things that a fork would lack. The project would survive without him now that that supporting infrastructure exists, and in fact would be better off if he wasn't there to drive off contributors, drive his fellow devs insane, and watse everyone's time arguing over inane things the game dosn't need.

This, sadly, is unlikely to happen.

Except if everyone hates Kevin as you seem to think, surely it wouldn't be that hard to get the others devs to all switch and make your own fork with blackjack and hookers?

[Random_Dragon]

p.s. Step down lol, that's some next level entitlement.

Coolthulhu would make an infinitely better head developer than you. As would Riv. You are unnecessary at this point, in fact your presence is the biggest detriment to this project and its community.

[Egan_BW]

To be blunt, the only solution that would solve the problem requires Kevin to step down. The main repo has an established base of developers and contributors, things that a fork would lack. The project would survive without him now that that supporting infrastructure exists, and in fact would be better off if he wasn't there to drive off contributors, drive his fellow devs insane, and watse everyone's time arguing over inane things the game dosn't need.

This, sadly, is unlikely to happen.

Except if everyone hates Kevin as you seem to think, surely it wouldn't be that hard to get the others devs to all switch and make your own fork with blackjack and hookers?

Cataclysm BJH

[AVE]

While I am not quite content with the attitude of Kevin's posts on github, he at least does SOMETHING to constrain other developers and lead their efforts in a particular direction. There was a moment I remember when no one tried to do that and CDDA became an absolute mess of various wild additions, some of them even not fitting in the lore.

If he steps down, will there be someone to do the same thing as he does currently? And what if that person will be 'hated' by the community for same reasons as Kevin currently is? Being a leader is a burden and this 'hate' is a part of that burden I think. There is certainly a balance between doing what the majority of people want and things that need to be done in order to tweak the game into being not too easy or boring to play. I think that Kevin will catch that balance eventually, or he will just give up due to overall pressing.

[azmodean]

@AVE I agree with most of what you're saying, gaming is a toxic area for whatever reason, and level of abuse doesn't indicate anything except level of interest, so pretty much all you can do is ignore it (Or counter-troll if you feel like it, but taking abuse seriously is a one-way ticket to exiting the gamedev arena).

There is certainly a balance between doing what the majority of people want and things that need to be done in order to tweak the game into being not too easy or boring to play. I think that Kevin will catch that balance eventually, or he will just give up due to overall pressing.

Im glad someone reasonable brought this up, I can respond without feeling like I'm wasting my time.
I'm making dda because it's a game I want to exist, I'd still be working on it if no one else were contributing, I'd still be working on it if no one else PLAYED it.  Im not making it for the majority. If it were, it'd look a hell of a lot more like candy crush or clash of clans than xcom or fallout or df.  I'm making it for me, and the fact that other people like it too reflects the fact that we have similar tastes in games.  I also enjoy working with (some) other people, and like to share things I've made, which is why I've put so much work into making dda moddable.

Tl;Dr, I'm making dda for me, and if you like it too, you're welcome to enjoy it. If you want to make a mod and aren't a raging asshole, I'm happy to work with you on it and stay out of your business.

The concept of me being pressured out of the project is laughable, here and /rlg are the only places that are notably toxic, and even if there were widespread toxicity elsewhere, the, worst that would happen is I'd hole up on the forums i own and ignore it

[Arbinire]

@AVE I agree with most of what you're saying, gaming is a toxic area for whatever reason, and level of abuse doesn't indicate anything except level of interest, so pretty much all you can do is ignore it (Or counter-troll if you feel like it, but taking abuse seriously is a one-way ticket to exiting the gamedev arena).

There is certainly a balance between doing what the majority of people want and things that need to be done in order to tweak the game into being not too easy or boring to play. I think that Kevin will catch that balance eventually, or he will just give up due to overall pressing.

Im glad someone reasonable brought this up, I can respond without feeling like I'm wasting my time.
I'm making dda because it's a game I want to exist, I'd still be working on it if no one else were contributing, I'd still be working on it if no one else PLAYED it.  Im not making it for the majority. If it were, it'd look a hell of a lot more like candy crush or clash of clans than xcom or fallout or df.  I'm making it for me, and the fact that other people like it too reflects the fact that we have similar tastes in games.  I also enjoy working with (some) other people, and like to share things I've made, which is why I've put so much work into making dda moddable.

Tl;Dr, I'm making dda for me, and if you like it too, you're welcome to enjoy it. If you want to make a mod and aren't a raging asshole, I'm happy to work with you on it and stay out of your business.

The concept of me being pressured out of the project is laughable, here and /rlg are the only places that are notably toxic, and even if there were widespread toxicity elsewhere, the, worst that would happen is I'd hole up on the forums i own and ignore it

You aren't making it though.  It's not your game.  The fact this is how you think of it speaks volumes to be honest.  You're a contributor just like everyone else who has contributed to it, and just because you've been actively chasing off everyone else who has contributed to it doesn't make it your game, and it never will be your game.  It wasn't your idea.  It wasn't your vision.  You're just sampling it and claiming credit for something.  So slow down Vanilla Ice, and maybe start listening to people.

[Random_Dragon]

While I am not quite content with the attitude of Kevin's posts on github, he at least does SOMETHING to constrain other developers and lead their efforts in a particular direction. There was a moment I remember when no one tried to do that and CDDA became an absolute mess of various wild additions, some of them even not fitting in the lore.

If he steps down, will there be someone to do the same thing as he does currently? And what if that person will be 'hated' by the community for same reasons as Kevin currently is? Being a leader is a burden and this 'hate' is a part of that burden I think. There is certainly a balance between doing what the majority of people want and things that need to be done in order to tweak the game into being not too easy or boring to play. I think that Kevin will catch that balance eventually, or he will just give up due to overall pressing.

Coolthulhu has demonstrated the desire to serve that role, and honestly he's the most qualified to fill that role. But his branch doesn't have the infrastructure that CleverRaven's repo has.

and aren't a raging asshole

Funny how I'm the only one of the two of us that readily admits to being a raging asshole.