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[WillowLuman]

So, like digimon?

And yet another thing on the list of things I know very little about:
-All Bioware except NWN and KotOR
-Anything ending in "-mon"

[Andres]

Oh yeah, so it's cooperative. Ok. Both the human and the spirit get something out of the deal. That's what cooperative means. BUT, if there are only positives to the bonding, why would any human/spirit NOT want to bond with a spirit/human? That question is important. If there is no reason for spirits and humans to not bond together, then our protagonist wouldn't really be special would she? Everyone would have their own spirit. That's why we need to find both the benefits and drawbacks to bonding with a spirit, even though it's primarily beneficial to both parties which makes it cooperative.

How about this: spirits in the spirit world can last indefinitely but they eventually die in the human world. One spirit has for whatever reason been exiled and is forced to live in the human world where it will die unless it finds a human host. The host it picks is its protagonist who it will occasionally feed off of by possessing it. The resulting possession will empower the human to do cool stuff but it would damage the both of them if the spirit stays in its host for too long.

There. A reason for why the spirit bonds with the human (food), a reason why the human bonds with the spirit (originally not a choice, eventually POWAH), and the short-term problems (burnout). Long-term effects can include being able to stay bonded for longer periods of time. I don't think there really needs to be any downsides to a long-term relationship, though.

This also presents a reason as to why spirits don't just go down to the human world for teh lulz - because it's an automatic death sentence. If it doesn't find a host, it will die. If its host dies while it's still inside of it, it will die. If its host dies while it's outside of it, it will live but it'll then have to find a new host. Inevitably, it will eventually be unlucky enough to be inside a host when it dies.

So, like digimon?

And yet another thing on the list of things I know very little about:
-All Bioware except NWN and KotOR
-Anything ending in "-mon"

Digimon is basically Pokemon except with copious amounts of HERESY. (I never watched Digimon.)

[WillowLuman]

The main difficulty to establishing a bond should be finding a reason to trust one another, as presumably spirits/humans could do some very nasty things to each other while in such close contact. I don't think the spirits should die from being in the human world too long, perhaps they can only stay so long without an anchor, but I do want to leave things open to have spirits that wander/linger around and mess with things.

[kj1225]

Of course, I like Baldman's worlds affecting each other by bleeding to the other but I don't like his spirit things, I like Andres' idea on the burnout and such but I don't like his spirit lore. I personally think there shouldn't be unified lore on spirits, like, everyone is technically correct. You know those ancient texts talking about Djinn and Daemons, and Angels and stuff? All true but not quite right you know, Which would explain why only now it's a thing for spirits to enter the world, the answer is they've done so before but only now is it coming back, maybe both sides did something to close off the worlds until a more stable time?

[Andres]

The main difficulty to establishing a bond should be finding a reason to trust one another, as presumably spirits/humans could do some very nasty things to each other while in such close contact. I don't think the spirits should die from being in the human world too long, perhaps they can only stay so long without an anchor, but I do want to leave things open to have spirits that wander/linger around and mess with things.

How about this: humans and spirits are capable of devouring each-other while in a bonded state where the devoured is destroyed. Humans can get more lifespan out of it (I would think decades, but they could instead just get power) while spirits get more power (or gaining the ability to generate a corporeal body). This should create some trust issues.

I've also come up with a reward for trust. Basically, the human and the spirit devour each-other almost completely at the exact same time. This causes the two beings to temporarily fuse into a truly singular being, giving them more power. If this idea intrigues you I might draw up a visual aid.

[WillowLuman]

I think it would be more like super-position. Like, each fills some gap that the other leaves empty in the space they occupy. Or one is metaphorically blue, the other yellow, and when standing together they make a figurative green.

As for fusions, a true fusion could be a potential plot point, and I'm leaning towards it creating something unprecedented and highly dangerous, perhaps reality-breaking.

[Andres]

Since you didn't reject the idea outright, here's what I had in mind.

[kj1225]

So, basically what Hugo is thinking from what I understand is that it's more like, you take the start point and go directly to the middle. But it's more like colored lights are used instead of the actual colors.

[WillowLuman]

I think I could still use some more examples of the kinds of spirits/characters people have in mind, to test out ideas etc.

[kj1225]

Well, you already have mine's, the only thing I can think of that I didn't include was maybe having appearance change over the course of the game.

[~Neri]

Spoiler: Steam convo with Hugo. Couple unrelated bits snipped out. (Or at least I think they are: (click to show/hide)

Kevak: I have an idea:
Kevak: Three types of universes.
Kevak: Primary, secondary, trinary.
Hugo Luman: One of the ideas I'm currently working with is spirit plane being initially all vague and unstructured, but from prolonged contact with material plane, structure has begun to leak in, just as weirdness has begun to leak out
Kevak: Primaries are rare, but link to secondaries nearby. Secondaries link to trinaries and primaries.
Kevak: Secondaries can only link to one primary and two trinaries.
Kevak: Trinary can link to as many secondaries as it is close to.
Kevak: Primaries are the more solid realities. Like earth.
Hugo Luman: I dunno about making the scope that big. The largest I'm currently considering is a 3-plane sandwich, with the spirit plane, material plane, and a super-imposed in-between one
Hugo Luman: But you should totally bring it up in the thread
Kevak: Secondaries vary from afterlifes, to foggy indistinctness, to other crap.
Kevak: Trinaries are the rather alien planes.
Kevak: Travel between planes would be designated as absurdly difficult to downright impossible.
Kevak: A primary dweller wouldn't be able to survive a secondary or trinary due to their lack of being reality.
Kevak: Secondary could not survive trinary due to alienness but could survive a primary.
Kevak: Trinary could survive their home trinary, secondaries, and primes, but not other trinarys.
Hugo Luman: Hmm. Sounds like we'd wind up with more than 2 fundamental kinds of beings, though, which could be messy
Kevak: Not really.
Kevak: Their plane of origin is their real definer.
Kevak: Earth prolly is connected to a "natural" plane (combo of afterlife and general nature stuff) and an emotional plane ( thoughts and emotions manifest.
Hugo Luman: Here's probably the most cosmology-intensive post so far: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148998.msg6074934#msg6074934
Kevak: I predict those are the two main likely spirit types.
Kevak: Most people want something close to home.
Kevak: Specifics for what spirit does prolly depends on the spirit.
Kevak: Trinaries would just be the more alien.
Kevak: Since secondaries tend to have some link to their primary.
Hugo Luman: For now, I think I want to keep the cosmology a bit simpler
Hugo Luman: But we'll see as this half-baked idea spends more time in the oven

[Cheesecake]

Alright, since people are ripping off video games I'll do it too! What if humans and spirits get addicted to one another during bonding. The human gets a power trip, and the spirit gets to feel physical and emotional experiences. Just like in Warcraft 3 where blood elves get addicted to magic. Since the spirit is not corporeal, maybe at the start of the game you'll need to decide a vessel to keep the spirit in, opening it when it's time to bond.

If you lose the vessel, both the human and spirit lose the ability to bond. It gets even worse if they're both addicted to each other. (By addiction, I mean like they are fiercely jealous of anyone getting close to their partner, gradually growing from annoyance to flat out rage, a la Lord of the Rings and suffer withdrawal effects like the blood elves from Warcraft 3.)

What if the powers that the spirit gives you is the exact opposite of what the human is normally. A very stupid brute would be given superintelligence for example. The power grows as the pair bonds more, but also increases the addiction, finally to the point where one will try to completely consume the other if bonding is used too often. Once this happens, there might be a side quest where the losing partner has to find a way to escape the crazy one and subdue it.

[~Neri]

I feel like effects and drawbacks should depend on the pairing. A powertrip wouldn't really do much for some people. I know if I got the power to do whatever the fuck, I would just increase the quality of living for myself, maybe mess with a few people, maybe find a couple people, and maybe do a few things for the benefit of my friends. Other then that, I would more or less proceed as normal. No real powertrip there.

[Detoxicated]

Tss, one does not simply bond with a spirit and then pretend like it didn't happen

[GiglameshDespair]

Alright, since people are ripping off video games I'll do it too! What if humans and spirits get addicted to one another during bonding. The human gets a power trip, and the spirit gets to feel physical and emotional experiences. Just like in Warcraft 3 where blood elves get addicted to magic. Since the spirit is not corporeal, maybe at the start of the game you'll need to decide a vessel to keep the spirit in, opening it when it's time to bond.

If you lose the vessel, both the human and spirit lose the ability to bond. It gets even worse if they're both addicted to each other. (By addiction, I mean like they are fiercely jealous of anyone getting close to their partner, gradually growing from annoyance to flat out rage, a la Lord of the Rings and suffer withdrawal effects like the blood elves from Warcraft 3.)

What if the powers that the spirit gives you is the exact opposite of what the human is normally. A very stupid brute would be given superintelligence for example. The power grows as the pair bonds more, but also increases the addiction, finally to the point where one will try to completely consume the other if bonding is used too often. Once this happens, there might be a side quest where the losing partner has to find a way to escape the crazy one and subdue it.

Can't say I like this idea.