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[nexus_2006]

So Urist Hammerdwarf was stationed in front of a giant cave spider to get it to spit its wonderful webs everywhere, but apparently it reached through the fortifications and broke Urist's head off.  Is this expected/normal?  My first silk farm, but everything I read suggests things like dwarves, animals, etc don't die from GCS bites when there is a fortification in the way.  I was really surprised he died.

Also, bonus points I guess; the legendary hammerdwarf/armor user didn't have his masterwork steel helm on, for some reason.  You know, the one he has been wearing for 3 years?

My setup:

Code: [Select]

WWWWW
D+S+W
WFFFW
++U++
how it ended:

Code: [Select]

WWWWW
D+S+W
WFUFW
+++++
I had to open the door, let the GCS get caught in a cage, and mine out the carved fortification to get Urist's body out before it started to stink.

[utunnels]

No it is not normal.
What version are you using?

And do you have a roof? Creatures can climb out if you don't add one.

[nexus_2006]

I'm on 40.24, the entire room was dug from solid rock, top and bottom layer untouched, there's no way it crawled over the top for example.  I tried to find the logs just now, but the descriptions are gone, just the log that "GCS is fighting" "Urist in fighting".  When it first happened, it read like "GCS reaches out and grabs Urist's head and breaks the head muscle" or something like that.

[utunnels]

Code: [Select]

WWWWW
D+S+W
WFUFW
+++++

Looks more like Urist climbed over the fortification to greet the spider.

Even if a dorf has full steel set, he stands little to none chance aganst a GCS if he's webbed first.

[PatrikLundell]

I agree with utunnels that it looks like Urist somehow managed to climb into the fortification, which should not be possible if the layer above is untouched, regardless of whether the fortifications are dug or built. The only way it sort of should be possible is if you've had a strong flow of water, which are said to sometimes be able to carry stuff into fortifications, and I'm fairly sure you didn't have that.

Hm, I can actually think of a weird scenario: Up/down staircases "leak" downwards (I've had magma crabs invade from the still undiscovered magma sea this way). Check the level above the silk farm and see if there is an up/down staircase there (I suppose a down staircase behaves the same). If there is one directly above the fortification it might be possible to climb diagonally up into the staircase and then down into the fortification.

I've never tried it myself, but I've seen it said that a steel helmet will guarantee the survival of a webbed victim because the spider will attack immobilized targets with head bites exclusively, and the helmet ensures these bites are never successful. Unless rescued, the dorf will eventually die of starvation. That text might also relate to an earlier version of DF.

The silk farms I've built have used goblin volunteers or reanimated corpses as bait. The latter should work with both wild and tamed spiders, whereas I think the former requires a tamed spider.

[dwarobaki]

I'm not sure, but maybe it's possible to dodge on fortification?

[Bumber]

I'm not sure, but maybe it's possible to dodge on fortification?

Or jump through.

[PatrikLundell]

If it was possible to jump into fortifications I think you'd have a lot of reports about stuck goblins. Dodging sounds more plausible, but still strange.

[Bumber]

If it was possible to jump into fortifications I think you'd have a lot of reports about stuck goblins. Dodging sounds more plausible, but still strange.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8160

[utunnels]

the helmet ensures these bites are never successful.

I had a spear master who got his brain killed by a cow.
Helm doesn't provide 100% protection.

[Bumber]

the helmet ensures these bites are never successful.

I had a spear master who got his brain killed by a cow.
Helm doesn't provide 100% protection.

And now you know why dwarves sometimes cancel jobs after milking cows due to "handling dangerous creature". They weren't kidding.

[PatrikLundell]

Still not convinced, since I'm fairly sure the cow wasn't biting the dwarf. A cow goring the dwarf with the horns ought to be able to punch a hole in the helmet, and the kick of a cow can carry a fair punch as well.

[Sanctume]

Things to check:

Was Fortification Constructed?  Constructed Fortification does not have a roof on that tile; or rather does not create a floor on the z+1 tile above.
Fortification Carved from Block or natural stone will create a roof, or rather create a floor on the z+1 tile above.

Other than this possible source, Urist can dodge into and even through Fortifications.
There were even reports when a barracks is designated adjacent to a solid wall, sparring dodges can cause urist to pass through walls and fall into magma when said barracks wall is adjacent to magma.

[Loci]

Climbing, jumping and dodging are pretty much impossible when a dwarf is webbed, and if the spider had escaped it likely wouldn't have returned to captivity. My guess would be a retracting bridge that OP neglected to mention; creatures are "tossed" when the bridge changes state and can easily pass into and through fortifications.

As for the helmet, it's quite possible that the dwarf never equipped it. (Note that a green status on the equipment screen only means that the helmet was assigned, not that the dwarf picked it up and put it on.) In particular, dwarves love to wear caps which prevent wearing helmets, and aren't smart enough to swap them without player intervention. If he did actually put the helmet on, then either OP forged some adamantine helmets, the dwarf has been ordered to get out of uniform when off duty (the default is to stay equipped), the dwarf had the mining, woodcutting, or hunting labor active (all three conflict with military uniforms), or the helmet was stolen by a wrestling foe (and probably auto-forbidden by default when the enemy died).