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Author Topic: ☆ Genetic Variation ☆ Mod Release!  (Read 10231 times)

DizzyCrash

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☆ Genetic Variation ☆ Mod Release!
« on: February 22, 2015, 02:10:04 am »

☆ Genetic Variation ☆

It is done, after a lot of work and relearning the system I have created a mod to get red of that pesky little issue ware civs generate with only a single ethnic feature, I have managed to stop entire races of brown skinned blond people from ruling entire continents.

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                       Heres how I did it!


First I created a list of realistic sounding hair and skin tone descriptors, such as is listed below.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Once that was complete, I created a caste model with a combination of every hair and complexion that suited, I tried to avoid ginger with very dark skin tones and such, and the few odd combinations that made it in received a [POP_RATIO:1]

This will 100% Erase the chance of repeat hair and skin tones for every member of a entity.

☆ LINK TO DOWNLOAD ☆
http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=10610

At the moment I only have a caste model complete for humans and dwarves, elves and goblins will be coming soon, I hope this is fixed soon so the mod is not necessary, but as iv never seen a mod like this one before it is a much needed niche, not to mention it is a time consuming one and very tedious to make, so I understand the lack of desire to put in a lot of work to fix a small problem.

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« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 01:50:16 am by DizzyCrash »
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Rex Invictus

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Re: ☆ Realistic Genetics ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2015, 05:57:33 am »

I think the mod name is a bit of a misnomer.
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DizzyCrash

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Re: ☆ Realistic Genetics ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2015, 11:01:29 am »

I think the mod name is a bit of a misnomer.
probably, i had a hard time coming up with a name... so i just settled on the first thing that came to mind
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EuchreJack

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Re: ☆ Realistic Genetics ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2015, 11:19:14 am »

I'd probably prefer a mod that introduced Unrealistic Genetics, such as extra limbs, heads, fire breathing, etc.  But this is still nice.

IndigoFenix

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Re: ☆ Realistic Genetics ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2015, 12:18:17 pm »

I think the mod name is a bit of a misnomer.
probably, i had a hard time coming up with a name... so i just settled on the first thing that came to mind

It's kind of the opposite of realistic genetics, though.  Vanilla has some degree of simulated genetic inheritance (which is why you tend to end up with a single uniform racial complexion if you allow them to mingle freely, which is closer to what happens in real life), while this takes away genetic inheritance completely.

How about 'genetic variation mod'?

GoblinCookie

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Re: ☆ Realistic Genetics ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2015, 12:55:44 pm »

☆ Realistic Genetics ☆

It is done, after a lot of work and relearning the system I have created a mod to get red of that pesky little issue ware civs generate with only a single ethnic feature, I have managed to stop entire races of brown skinned blond people from ruling entire continents.

In other words, roughly what happens in real life.  A number of genetically unrelated feutures end up clustering together, so in real-life blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin.  All of them genetically seperate.

A lot of work gone into making the game less realistic, the exact opposite of the stated objective.  A 'realism' mod that exists solely to destroy a feature that was added into the game precisely to make it more realistic. 
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DizzyCrash

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Re: ☆ Realistic Genetics ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2015, 03:12:23 pm »

☆ Realistic Genetics ☆

It is done, after a lot of work and relearning the system I have created a mod to get red of that pesky little issue ware civs generate with only a single ethnic feature, I have managed to stop entire races of brown skinned blond people from ruling entire continents.

In other words, roughly what happens in real life.  A number of genetically unrelated feutures end up clustering together, so in real-life blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin.  All of them genetically seperate.

A lot of work gone into making the game less realistic, the exact opposite of the stated objective.  A 'realism' mod that exists solely to destroy a feature that was added into the game precisely to make it more realistic.

Yes, I should change it to genetic variation, I will do that now.

The perpose of the mod is to add that little extra thing the game was missing, this is cause the end result is that every hero you make, every king you have, every random minor picking away in the depths of your mines, will look identical, this is a major major major problem.

So I am changing it to genetic variation instead, I didnt work super hard on the name.

I think realistic referred to the use of words like blond and brunette, but Iv forgotten what my thought process at the time was.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 03:18:29 pm by DizzyCrash »
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DizzyCrash

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Re: ☆ Realistic Genetics ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2015, 03:16:23 pm »

I'd probably prefer a mod that introduced Unrealistic Genetics, such as extra limbs, heads, fire breathing, etc.  But this is still nice.

Oh I get that 100%.. but I kinda wanted something unobtrusive, thing is its a major issue in the game that every hero I make looks exactly the same, so this needs to be fixed ya know? I like when one hero can be a dashing blond hero with masculine features or a slovenly fat man with dark hair and a bushy beard, bloth should exist in a proper medieval setting.
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DizzyCrash

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Re: ☆ Realistic Genetics ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2015, 03:19:26 pm »

I think the mod name is a bit of a misnomer.
probably, i had a hard time coming up with a name... so i just settled on the first thing that came to mind

It's kind of the opposite of realistic genetics, though.  Vanilla has some degree of simulated genetic inheritance (which is why you tend to end up with a single uniform racial complexion if you allow them to mingle freely, which is closer to what happens in real life), while this takes away genetic inheritance completely.

How about 'genetic variation mod'?

Agreed! and done, thank you for the suggestion, it was incredibly helpful!
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DizzyCrash

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Re: ☆ Genetic Variation ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2015, 01:53:31 am »

Just uploaded my final version of it ( for now )

Anyway! I will make alterations and changes based on any criticisms but so far I feel pretty good about the product I have created at this moment, so enjoy and I know its not going to be a big popular choice, but if anyone else wants a little more variation in there heroes and the people who make up there fortresses, than this is the best option iv encountered in the modding community without sitting down for the time to do it yourself, so  Ihope to cater to those who do not have the time or energy or even the know how to create this themselves.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: ☆ Genetic Variation ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2015, 11:22:18 am »

Just uploaded my final version of it ( for now )

Anyway! I will make alterations and changes based on any criticisms but so far I feel pretty good about the product I have created at this moment, so enjoy and I know its not going to be a big popular choice, but if anyone else wants a little more variation in there heroes and the people who make up there fortresses, than this is the best option iv encountered in the modding community without sitting down for the time to do it yourself, so  Ihope to cater to those who do not have the time or energy or even the know how to create this themselves.

You might do better than at present if you took all of your different races and gave them different creature files rather than relying on castes.  You can use multiple creatures for the same entity and the game will select at random one of them for each civilization and that way you will get genetic inheritance and what you consider realism at the same time. 
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DizzyCrash

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Re: ☆ Genetic Variation ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2015, 12:45:08 pm »

Just uploaded my final version of it ( for now )

Anyway! I will make alterations and changes based on any criticisms but so far I feel pretty good about the product I have created at this moment, so enjoy and I know its not going to be a big popular choice, but if anyone else wants a little more variation in there heroes and the people who make up there fortresses, than this is the best option iv encountered in the modding community without sitting down for the time to do it yourself, so  Ihope to cater to those who do not have the time or energy or even the know how to create this themselves.

You might do better than at present if you took all of your different races and gave them different creature files rather than relying on castes.  You can use multiple creatures for the same entity and the game will select at random one of them for each civilization and that way you will get genetic inheritance and what you consider realism at the same time.

That sounds a bit advanced, iv never heard of that technique before, also I am having trouble envisioning what you are saying, I just want to have blonds and redheads in the same civilization XD
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GoblinCookie

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Re: ☆ Genetic Variation ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2015, 01:31:39 pm »

That sounds a bit advanced, iv never heard of that technique before, also I am having trouble envisioning what you are saying, I just want to have blonds and redheads in the same civilization XD

I simply meant create one creature for white people, another creature for brown people and so on but put them all in as creature options in the entity file.  Otherwise you end up with two white people producing a black baby which is silly.  And as far as I am aware it is quite possible to have blondes and redheads in the same civilization, there is just a certain tendancy towards sameness.  Increasing the number of civilizations to maximum (300) would if combined with a 1000 year time frame result in a mixture, provided there is a high number of historical characters. 

Take the default number of historical characters and increase it to as high as your memory allows (in my case it seems to be 45000) and cut the total number of sites so the ration of historical characters per site is high per site.  The cause of the problem you describe is that most characters in the game did not actually exist in world-gen except as population numbers. 

When they are historicised (that is when you encounter them in either mode) they are given the stock race generated right at the world-gen start, which tends to only have one hair colour, eye colour and skin colour.  If you ramp up the number of historical characters so that the majority of all sites are made of historical characters then you should have realistic genetic variation develop naturally, if you have a high number of civilizations. 

The world's people becomes more generic the fewer historical characters there are per site.   If you had 45 as the site limit and 45000 as the historical character limit then everyone in the world would probably end up as a historical character.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: ☆ Genetic Variation ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2015, 02:48:47 pm »

I have actually tested out the ideas that I told DizzyCrash about and they do actually work.  I have genned a small world with 45000 historical characters limit but only 45 sites.  With this number of historical characters per site the 'problem' that DizzyCrash mentioned does not exist even though there is only one mountain gnome civilization in the world my mountain gnomes after 1050 years have full genetic variation in evidence. 

I have uploaded the game here

Interestingly while there is certainly far more gnomes about the place that have families and thus descend from other historical characters this is still not universally the case.  Most of the population are still 'promoted extras' it seems but we do not see the racialising that we normally see. 

It seems that the game initially spawns a whole group of historical characters who then have children.  However since they never produce enough children to fill up all the sites new historical characters are 'promoted'.  It seems that characters promoted during worldgen are given like all promoted characters a standard appearance which presumably is based upon the average of all the historical characters inhabiting a given civilization.

Normally the children of a few couples dominates the historical population so that when new historical characters are promoted they have those traits.  This leads to an averaging of the average given a low historical character population and the racialisation seen in civilizations.

With the ability to increase historical character numbers without restraint however the initial variation that exists among the initial historical population is not forced into a bottleneck by World-Gen and thus we do not see reducing variation because the starting population is so diverse that newly promoted characters are also diverse in appearance.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: ☆ Genetic Variation ☆ Mod Release!
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2015, 04:23:00 pm »

Splitting the different races up by species would prevent them from interbreeding, and wouldn't really accomplish anything that didn't happen in Vanilla.

The reason why civs tend to wind up homogeneous very quickly in DF is partially because DF's genetic system doesn't store any recessive traits (it doesn't blend traits together either, but that's besides the point).  Civs are generated with a full spectrum of colors, but with every pairing, one genetic variant is lost completely.  If a brown-eyed parent and a blue-eyed parent have a child in DF, that child will have either brown eyes or blue eyes - and the other variant will be lost from that family tree, with no chance of cropping up later as a recessive trait (like blue eyes would in real life).  Over multiple generations, the chances of not winding up with everyone in a civ looking the same becomes very slim indeed.  The regular goblin-induced culling of the population doesn't help either.

In real life it works somewhat differently, but not that differently.  Isolated or mostly-isolated countries (roughly equivalent to entities in DF) do tend to wind up with a mostly homogeneous population over several generations, assuming that there aren't any social stigmas preventing interracial marriage (which there usually are, at least for a few generations) or frequent influxes of new immigrants to add fresh genes into the mix (which are common in the modern age of fast communication and travel, but were pretty sporadic in ancient times).

In DF there is only a small amount of immigration from one entity to another (which is fairly realistic for the time period), and no stigma against interracial marriage once it does happen (which is less realistic), so 'minorities' are rare to begin with and they become assimilated into the majority race very quickly.  The chances of finding multiple colors within a civ in DF are therefore even rarer than they are in real life.

But apart from this, 'mixing bowl' nations are common today, thanks to fast communication and travel, which makes DF's homogeneous civs seem 'unrealistic' to players from these countries, even though it was closer to the norm for most of human history, except in immigrant-populated countries like the United States or Australia, or major trade-route cities like Ancient Rome.

The 'race as caste' system isn't realistic in the slightest, but if you like an ethnic rainbow in your civ, then I can't think of any better way of doing it.
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