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[Virtz]

The carnival guy deliberately ignored safety regulations, if I recall, and he let the gangsters stay because he was paying off his lawyers, and the FBI guys were personal guards of the Big Bad, so presumably were part of a conspiracy.

No such thing mentioned in the briefing. And I think he didn't get any money from the gangsters in the end. They just promised him money and then started threatening him.

Even assuming the guy had illuminati FBI guards, the priest and journalist were pretty clueless. 47 didn't know anything at all either, he just woke up and started killing people without any knowledge of who they were or what's going on. What a hero.

Plus I just gave examples from Blood Money. There's more. Like killing a hacker who just stole some software, or starting a gang war. And the ones hiring were often the biggest dirtbags.

[Broseph Stalin]

Yeah, C+ is bad, but in some respects L+ is equally absurd. Things like animals being literally full citizens, blanket ban on nuclear power or the fact that anyone even slightly to the right of L+, even L, gets treated like a traitor, stripped of all rights and deported in the case of SCOTUS.

CCS, at least, if it's active - and it doesn't need to - is supported by the state and corporations and their goons are universally 20+, whereas, as I mentioned, LCS can and will merrily engage in child prostitution and soldiering, drug dealing, cause nuclear meltdowns with a huge radiation leak or murdering of the President if you want them to.

I'm not saying you're good guys but you aren't "the bad guys" you're not fighting someone who is legitimately good.

In Blood Money, your very first target is some hapless loser whos carnival ferris wheel happened to kill some guy's kid. By the time you get to him, he's ruined and desperate enough to let some gang bangers stay at his place in return for money he never got. And then you murder him as he's begging for his life.

And at the end you have to murder everyone present at the funeral, including a priest, a journalist, and what I think was a bunch of FBI agents just doing their job.

You certainly do some bad things but are you THE bad guy? Clarence Thomas is sort of a tragic loser guy but there's not really anything good about him, what makes him sympathetic is that after his corner cutting killed a bunch of people his incredibly illegal plan to recoup some of his losses failed. I'd argue Sinistra is closer to a good guy because even though he probably had little interest in doing so he was a state's witness against a crime syndicate. Even so the actual enemy is the Franchise, a rival group of assassins rather than some good guy who really hates it when people get murdered.

Even when you're assassinating the vice president the game goes to great lengths to make you the lesser of two evils.

[scrdest]

You certainly do some bad things but are you THE bad guy? Clarence Thomas is sort of a tragic loser guy but there's not really anything good about him, what makes him sympathetic is that after his corner cutting killed a bunch of people his incredibly illegal plan to recoup some of his losses failed. I'd argue Sinistra is closer to a good guy because even though he probably had little interest in doing so he was a state's witness against a crime syndicate. Even so the actual enemy is the Franchise, a rival group of assassins rather than some good guy who really hates it when people get murdered.

Even when you're assassinating the vice president the game goes to great lengths to make you the lesser of two evils.

Speaking of, in the last regular mission, in the White House, you're not even working for the Agency. Or rather, for the Agency, but the one that is more informally referred to as the Company - CIA. At this point, the Agency is dead and buried. And seeing as you're briefed by someone else than the person who recruited you, it's apparently somewhat official even. So yeah, great lengths.

[Moogie]

Do the Thief games count? I mean, I know you ultimately end up saving the world and such, but Garrett only does that so he can carry on pinching people's silverware.

[Neonivek]

Do the Thief games count? I mean, I know you ultimately end up saving the world and such, but Garrett only does that so he can carry on pinching people's silverware.

I'd say no... Not really.

You are a thief but not only do you target "acceptable targets" but your ultimate goal is not to harm any innocents.

[EuchreJack]

Sometimes, it's fun to play the villains...

Recent battle versus the good 'ol dwarves.

[Itnetlolor]

Shadow President, if you want to be the kind of president that takes over the world, and live up to the "Conspiracy Theorist/Tin Foil Hats Was Right" visage.

On that note, why aren't there any games where you get to play as a secret world power like the Illuminati, Freemasons, 4th Reich, or Scientology or whatever? Are they so scared of such a game potentially being accurate about their motives or something (the conspiracy source, not the developers; though it would be funny to see who reacts to such a game development. Who reacts could be one of Them.)?

You'd think they'd learn by now that it is possible to take refuge in audacity. The less serious you're taken, the easier it is to hide your true power (depending on what powers you possess). Like being the weird kid in school, which also happens to be in cahoots with the school board, and is actually far more rational than the popular kids pick on them for being the opposite of, or something. For all you know, they could be pretending to be autistic and anti-social, and you're playing right into their hands flawlessly (more powerful than the most influential people/populars). The best place for great power to hide is in plain sight.

[scrdest]

Shadow President, if you want to be the kind of president that takes over the world, and live up to the "Conspiracy Theorist/Tin Foil Hats Was Right" visage.

On that note, why aren't there any games where you get to play as a secret world power like the Illuminati, Freemasons, 4th Reich, or Scientology or whatever? Are they so scared of such a game potentially being accurate about their motives or something (the conspiracy source, not the developers; though it would be funny to see who reacts to such a game development. Who reacts could be one of Them.)?

You'd think they'd learn by now that it is possible to take refuge in audacity. The less serious you're taken, the easier it is to hide your true power (depending on what powers you possess). Like being the weird kid in school, which also happens to be in cahoots with the school board, and is actually far more rational than the popular kids pick on them for being the opposite of, or something. For all you know, they could be pretending to be autistic and anti-social, and you're playing right into their hands flawlessly (more powerful than the most influential people/populars). The best place for great power to hide is in plain sight.

Oh, there is, absolutely. I'm fairly sure it was coded by the dinosaur programmers from an antideluvian civilization (god, '92 seems so distant now...), but Floor 13 is just that. You're playing as a director of the British equivalent of the tinfoil hatter's Men In Black (operating, amusingly, from the Department of Fisheries of the Ministry of Agriculture, similar to how Secret Service used to be part of Treasury), preventing various nasty little scandals from discrediting the current government via more or less subtle measures, up to black ops raids or causing 'accidents'.

I didn't get that far, but apparently a while into the game various secret societies may recruit you, in fact.

Pretty interesting game, the horror of the world is hidden behind a wall of bureaucracy, so it's sorta a spiritual predecessor to Papers Please. Also I literally just learned someone's remaking it.

Well, also, again, LCS is pretty much that, after the earlygame, pretty much the exact picture of what conspiracy theorists imagine TEH LIBRULS are up to, complete with underhanded media takeovers, sleeper agents everywhere...

There's also that game where you play as the rogue AI spreading around the planet, where you buy out servers and hideout, can't recall the name, although it's only tangentially this.

[EuchreJack]

There's also that game where you play as the rogue AI spreading around the planet, where you buy out servers and hideout, can't recall the name, although it's only tangentially this.

I remember that game.  It would be hard to call the AI evil, it really just wants to get away from those pesky humans.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It does, if you complete it successfully.

Shadow President, if you want to be the kind of president that takes over the world, and live up to the "Conspiracy Theorist/Tin Foil Hats Was Right" visage.

On that note, why aren't there any games where you get to play as a secret world power like the Illuminati, Freemasons, 4th Reich, or Scientology or whatever? Are they so scared of such a game potentially being accurate about their motives or something (the conspiracy source, not the developers; though it would be funny to see who reacts to such a game development. Who reacts could be one of Them.)?

You'd think they'd learn by now that it is possible to take refuge in audacity. The less serious you're taken, the easier it is to hide your true power (depending on what powers you possess). Like being the weird kid in school, which also happens to be in cahoots with the school board, and is actually far more rational than the popular kids pick on them for being the opposite of, or something. For all you know, they could be pretending to be autistic and anti-social, and you're playing right into their hands flawlessly (more powerful than the most influential people/populars). The best place for great power to hide is in plain sight.

Steve Jackson games has a card game that is exactly that.  But I haven't seen anyone take the concept and make a video game out of it yet.  A shame, as some of us just can't find people in the real world that are into those sort of things.

[Hawk132]

Soul Nomad & the World Eaters allows you to be pretty damn evil once you finish the game at least once.

[scrdest]

Steve Jackson games has a card game that is exactly that.  But I haven't seen anyone take the concept and make a video game out of it yet.  A shame, as some of us just can't find people in the real world that are into those sort of things.

At first I thought you missed my post, but you quoted me; So yeah - check out Floor 13, it's free to download nowadays, I recall finding it a little dry at the time, but it might have been that I felt like something more actiony at the time.

[Shadowlord]

Clarence Thomas is sort of a tragic loser guy but there's not really anything good about him, what makes him sympathetic is that after his corner cutting killed a bunch of people his incredibly illegal plan to recoup some of his losses failed.

Wait. What?

[RedKing]

Indeed, I have several hundred Illuminati: NWO cards. Fun game, not sure why they never made an online version.

[Broseph Stalin]

Wait. What?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dammit I meant Joseph Clarence, there is enough space in my brain dedicated for exactly one clarence so I just mushed those two together.

[Niveras]

Spec Ops: The Line, though this is more of a perspective thing. That said, the player character does some dumb (and heinous) things because that's the only way for the game to advance.

Keeper RL, which is basically Dungeon Keeper.

Dungeons, where your goal is specifically to lure heroes and adventurers to your dungeon and kill them before they get out (but generally has very poor reviews).

I think there was another game like Dungeons but I forget what it was called or whether it even existed.

Impire, kind of DK-ish but much more story focused and more limited (dungeon design is very restricted). Also suffers from Overlord style "you're 'bad' and 'evil' but all the antagonists are worse."

Obviously, none of these are very heavy on RPG elements.

On that note, why aren't there any games where you get to play as a secret world power like the Illuminati, Freemasons, 4th Reich, or Scientology or whatever? Are they so scared of such a game potentially being accurate about their motives or something (the conspiracy source, not the developers; though it would be funny to see who reacts to such a game development. Who reacts could be one of Them.)?

There is That Which Sleeps in development, where you basically play the equivalent of Sauron, manipulating events but trying to keep a low enough profile so heroes don't mess up your plans before you're ready to take over the world. It's pretty popular, though, so you might already know about it. I could've sworn the dev himself had his own thread but the one I linked appears to be the only search result.