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Author Topic: Games Where You're the Bad Guy  (Read 25855 times)

Broseph Stalin

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Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« on: February 21, 2015, 09:31:54 pm »

Much of this discussion will involve talking about major plot points of games to determine who the good and bad guys are. Expect Spoilers.

When playing a game like Knights of the old Republic I tend to be evil. It's just fun! Sure I can appreciate the old fashioned selfless hero of pure heart fighting the forces of darkness but when I walk into town and threaten to fill someone's urethra with lightning bolts if a statue isn't built in my honor there's no beating that feeling. The problem is that even in those games you aren't really the bad guy, not usually. There is a tragic deficit in games where you actually get to play the villain. KOTOR for example even if your real objective is to be the most powerful sith lord ever and take over the galaxy your enemies are generally going to be other bad guys and generally ones who are painted as being worse than you. Even with something like Grand Theft Auto where you're an anti-hero of sorts and maybe even an amoral nutjob in the context of the story you're almost always fighting someone worse or you're a bad guy who happens to be on the side of good just this one time. I understand the edgy gray and gray thing that a lot of works draw on but it sort of loses some of the magic of being evil. What I want to see more of is games where you are THE bad guy without question and the people trying to stop you are the good guys.

I think the Fallout series is really the only place I can think of where you can actually be the bad guy. Please bay twelvites, tell me there's more out there for a real bastard to enjoy. 

There are two key points to qualify as a bad guy game.

1. You are bad you do and want bad things.
2. Your opponent is good, they are doing the right thing by standing against you and this happens over the course of the game. It's not enough for one sequence or level where you go up against a good guy. This is where a lot of games fail. Going back to the Grand Theft Auto example the police could be called good guys but your primary antagonists are other criminals.

And don't forget the all important rule Zero: It does NOT have to be an RPG.



The List so Far

New Vegas:New Vegas is a good example of a game that works. Say you side with the legion, you can spend the entire game both fighting good guys and doing bad things in the name of being bad. The game actually makes it clear you're the bad guy with the black and white karma system.

Dungeon Keeper: One of the quintessential bad guy games, build a dungeon and wreck those puny heroes definite bad guy game.

Evil Genius: You're trying to take over the world and they're trying to stop you no question there.


Tropico: Don't just be a dictator, be an evil dictator!


Mount and Blade: Kill innocent people, take over the land! Sure the power game for the throne involves many players of questionable moral fiber but if you raze cities and massacre people most your enemies are going to end up being people upset by all the razing and massacring
 
Civilization: Whose good and whose bad very from game to game but if you're evil it's possible and likely the people you're going against are good.


Games that don't make the cut

Grand Theft Auto Series: Your enemies are basically always other bad guys. You CAN kill police and civillians and often times you actually HAVE to but the arc spanning enemies aren't good enough to be good guys.

Overlord 1 and 2: Even in the game all about being evil you are still fighting a bad enemy, in the first it's the heroes in the second it's the empire.

Bad Rats: THIS IS NOT A GAME. HOW DARE YOU SHADOWLORD?


Postal 2: Basically everybody has it coming and the fights you encounter actually playing the story involve fanatic protestors, bank robbers, rapist hillbillies and just general douchebags.


Hitman Series: There might be good people in the game but the arc and the bulk of missions involve you fighting bad guys.


Liberal Crime Squad: I'm no stranger to diabolical LCS runs but neither the CSS nor the conservative party are "good guys."





« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 06:21:49 pm by Broseph Stalin »
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Tawa

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2015, 09:36:04 pm »

You're kind of the bad guy in Dwarf Fortress... :P

I like games like this too, but the problem is that most of them tend to be crappy flash games made for the sake of having a game where you're the villain.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2015, 09:54:15 pm »

Uh... Bad Rats?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Mech#4

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2015, 10:07:38 pm »

Overlord 1 and 2 have you playing as a villain. Though, yes, not much of one compared to your enemies.

There could be something like the Undead campaign in "Warcraft III". You certainly play as a villain in that but it's not a roleplaying game.

It is a frequent thing. You're the villain against a bigger villain or some unknowable threat from beyond that is more just IS rather than being either good or evil.
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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2015, 10:10:02 pm »

OFF.

I have no more to say on the matter.
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Broseph Stalin

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2015, 10:14:07 pm »

Overlord 1 and 2 have you playing as a villain. Though, yes, not much of one compared to your enemies.

There could be something like the Undead campaign in "Warcraft III". You certainly play as a villain in that but it's not a roleplaying game.

It is a frequent thing. You're the villain against a bigger villain or some unknowable threat from beyond that is more just IS rather than being either good or evil.

Not even roleplaying games necessarily, it's just roleplaying games where you tend to have options and it's almost only role playing games where being bad is even a choice.  Now that I think about it the Mount and Blade games let you be a murderous warlord and don't necessarily make your enemies anything more than rulers trying to act reasonably. It's maddening though, I had a great time playing Overlord and subjugating the masses but it made me crazy that when playing as a character whose sole personality trait was being evil was still fighting evil. Seriously? Two chances and you can't just give me a game where the enemy is just the guy trying to stop me from taking over the world?

IronyOwl

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2015, 10:25:49 pm »

Most empire builders have some options for being an awful person, even if they're not dwelt on or explored very hard. Conquering/razing cities, raising taxes, ruining terrain, implementing questionable social policies, providing poor living conditions, and so on. Of course, it's far more abstracted and usually ambiguous than clicking the "Give me your coins or I'll stab you" dialogue option.
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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2015, 10:30:15 pm »

In Final Fantasy Tactics Advance you play as a villain, but that's due to poor writing.
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Jacob/Lee

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2015, 10:37:21 pm »

There's always Evil Genius and Dungeon Keeper. The former has you as an actual person that can wander around the base/taunt agents/execute minions for stat bonuses, Commissar style; it's all from the same RTS camera as the rest of the game, however. Both games make you the obviously evil one, but Dungeon Keeper (2, at least) forces you to knock off some enemy Keepers as the game progresses.

Although the vibe I'm getting from the original post is that you want something in a first- or third-person perspective, which is even more difficult to find in an already lacking field.

Urist Arrhenius

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2015, 10:38:23 pm »

Black and White. You can be an evil God, though not precisely a villain.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2015, 10:40:46 pm »

You can currently pay to play Shores of Hazeron ($5 for an initial 2 weeks, $10 for a month), and be evil to other players in that, if you like.
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Sonlirain

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2015, 10:56:05 pm »

Postal (Postal 2 kinda blurs the line as people there almost beg for a bullet to the forehead).

Hatred (not out yet but it's obviously Postal 3D).

Tropico (being a totalitarian leader of a banana republic can go either way).

Dungeon Keeper 1-2 (obvious picks).

Mount and Blade (feel free to raze those poor villages and kill the inhabitants)

Muslim Massacre (Never played it so i'm unsure if you are really the bad guy there)

Jade Empire (there is another "evil" but said evil is just someone who wants to enforce a strong totalitarian rule rather just being evil and kicking puppies for laughs(that's the PC's forte))

Black and White (if you are a good god your nemesis will be evil. If you are evil your nemesis will be good)

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (Spoiler. You are actually a demon altho there is little moral choice to be made untill the end)

Prototype and that other superhero game about a delivery guy with electric powers.
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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2015, 11:02:29 pm »

Lucius 1 and 2, though it's not very serious.
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Vendayn

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2015, 11:12:28 pm »

I want to see an MMO where you can be evil. And I don't mean be a douche to other players like in EVE or other deathmatch MMOs, but actually evil. The only one I'm aware of is WoW with the Forsaken.

(edit:

Its what annoyed me about ESO. And sorta the elder scrolls in general...you can't really be evil. Sure you can go around killing people, but I never felt evil in those games)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 11:17:53 pm by Vendayn »
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SealyStar

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2015, 01:20:46 am »

At the risk of offending le games hipsters with le mainstream AAA games (more like KKK amirite), I'll add that in Bioshock Infinite
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So it technically counts.
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